So how does everyone do their backups these days?

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haikan
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So how does everyone do their backups these days?

Unread postby haikan » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:49 am

Hi! I haven't done any admin work since I changed field to programming about 10 years ago, so I'm a bit outdated on network/server/admin things. At my house backups are done the traditional way, / and /export/home have not yet been migrated to zfs and are dumped to a Sun DAT 72 drive with ufsdump. Then a raidz array of 4*181GB SCSI disks are dumped with star, since there's no zfsdump available. I do both full and incremental dumps on the raidz array, and a full backup involves quite a bit of tape juggling.

Does anyone know if zfsdump will ever be available?

Do anyone of you still do tape backups, or have everyone moved to hdd backups?

Anyone using DVD or bluerays for backups, or other exotic solutions?
Ultra 60 2*450MHz, 1GB, Creator3D, 2*GbE, LSI SATA/SAS, 711 multipack, Sun DAT 72 drive - Solaris 10
Ultra 5 440MHz, 640MB, Raptor GFX, SCSI - Solaris 8

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Re: So how does everyone do their backups these days?

Unread postby Geoman » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:57 am

On my mac, I use the "time machine". Important documents are burnt to CD.

For the Octane, I've got an identical hard drive on a sled. I clone my drive then with xfs_dump -- xfs_restore regularly.
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Re: So how does everyone do their backups these days?

Unread postby iKitsune » Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:23 am

/dev/null on a lot of my UNIX systems, save for mirrored 1 TB drives + tape in the file server. I don't see much point in backing up drives that only hold the OS.
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haikan
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Re: So how does everyone do their backups these days?

Unread postby haikan » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:30 pm

iKitsune wrote:I don't see much point in backing up drives that only hold the OS.

Agree. The OS should never be restored from backup, because if your system was broken into you will then restore the rootkit as well. Besides, it's a nice opportunity to upgrade to the latest and greatest version of the OS. I backup my root slice because it also holds /var/mail and a lot of config files, and together with another slice, a full dump fits on one tape.
Ultra 60 2*450MHz, 1GB, Creator3D, 2*GbE, LSI SATA/SAS, 711 multipack, Sun DAT 72 drive - Solaris 10
Ultra 5 440MHz, 640MB, Raptor GFX, SCSI - Solaris 8

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Re: So how does everyone do their backups these days?

Unread postby Gray Fox » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:58 pm

When I do Back Ups. Its to a USB Hard Drive for my Windows/Linux/Mac Boxes. Some of my machines still have the Zip Drive so I use those. Same times Ill just burn a CD/DVD for backing up too.

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haikan
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Re: So how does everyone do their backups these days?

Unread postby haikan » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:04 pm

Ok, replying to my own post here :oops: I'd like to add a question. Many of you have probably moved to ZFS. Since Sun doesn't supply a proper backup solution for ZFS, what do you use?

Some kind of enterprise backup software like Sun suggests?

ZFS send/recv? (no incrementals, no guarantee the format won't change, no multi volume support)

Star? Star is really nice, too bad GNU tar made it into Solaris and star didn't.
Ultra 60 2*450MHz, 1GB, Creator3D, 2*GbE, LSI SATA/SAS, 711 multipack, Sun DAT 72 drive - Solaris 10
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Re: So how does everyone do their backups these days?

Unread postby iKitsune » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:19 pm

haikan wrote:Ok, replying to my own post here :oops: I'd like to add a question. Many of you have probably moved to ZFS. Since Sun doesn't supply a proper backup solution for ZFS, what do you use?

Some kind of enterprise backup software like Sun suggests?

ZFS send/recv? (no incrementals, no guarantee the format won't change, no multi volume support)

Star? Star is really nice, too bad GNU tar made it into Solaris and star didn't.

I was thinking about something involving just a file-level backup, but for now I'm just saving things to the NFS share. An OS reinstall on my Slowlaris box doesn't overly bug me.
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Re: So how does everyone do their backups these days?

Unread postby inomine » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:06 pm

As you yourself note zfs send isn't a bullet proof solution, and yes the format may change, but you should always be able to restore on the same OS version that you did the backup on. If your data is important that's a fairly small compromise in case of disaster recovery. It does have a couple of bugs as well, but generally its good enough for home and small business backups.

I personally use a cheap USB disk rather than tape, which hasn't made sense for home backups for a very long time. Pickup a cheap 1Tb disk and you should be happy. I do have a main zpool bigger than this, but only a small part of it is actually important. If the other stuff went away tomorrow I wouldn't cry, and as its RAIDZ a single drive failure is unlikely to knock it out. Snapshots give me accidental deletion protection. So the USB drive just allows me to have a worst case scenario recovery option for my really important data.

Everything else is too clunky and complicated IMHO, unless you're running an enterprise grade setup in which case go and talk to Symantec, who will sell you NetBackup and the newer versions of which are ZFS aware.

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Re: So how does everyone do their backups these days?

Unread postby inomine » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:14 pm

haikan wrote:Agree. The OS should never be restored from backup


There are plenty of valid times to have a backup of the OS and to use it. Patching that goes wrong, new software versions that screw things up, mysteriously unbootable boxes after a reboot. If you know that your last backup booted you to a working machine and you need to get your server/workstation up and running in a couple of hours because your business depends on it, what do you do? Rebuild?

I've also yet to see an actually rooted Solaris box, I've seen plenty that have been accidentally fudged due to not reading patch notes or incompetent or careless sysadmin. This stuff happens, a backup saves you from it.

I know that this isn't necessarily the situation that you're running your machines in, but there are valid times to have an OS backup, and as these days the OS is so small compared to everything else there's no excuse not to. And I strongly believe that every box in serious production role should have a proper working backup of everything it needs to do its job. There's no point having a backup of the data when rebuild the application setup is going to take you the best part of three days.

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iKitsune
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Re: So how does everyone do their backups these days?

Unread postby iKitsune » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:58 am

inomine wrote:
haikan wrote:Agree. The OS should never be restored from backup


There are plenty of valid times to have a backup of the OS and to use it. Patching that goes wrong, new software versions that screw things up, mysteriously unbootable boxes after a reboot. If you know that your last backup booted you to a working machine and you need to get your server/workstation up and running in a couple of hours because your business depends on it, what do you do? Rebuild?

I've also yet to see an actually rooted Solaris box, I've seen plenty that have been accidentally fudged due to not reading patch notes or incompetent or careless sysadmin. This stuff happens, a backup saves you from it.

I know that this isn't necessarily the situation that you're running your machines in, but there are valid times to have an OS backup, and as these days the OS is so small compared to everything else there's no excuse not to. And I strongly believe that every box in serious production role should have a proper working backup of everything it needs to do its job. There's no point having a backup of the data when rebuild the application setup is going to take you the best part of three days.

To that end, I use the Live Upgrade tools to make a snapshot of the boot environment before a patch. None of these are "production" systems either, the hardest-ass stuff they run is my dinky little website, and even then no one cares if that goes away for a couple days.
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Re: So how does everyone do their backups these days?

Unread postby shadowless » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:47 am

I use carbon copy cloner to clone my mac, both a image and working copy on a external usb drive. That way i can wipe my disk every time when I need to send the system for service. I can boot the clone copy on my usb hd off another mac and keep working.

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shel
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Re: So how does everyone do their backups these days?

Unread postby shel » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:42 am

haikan wrote:... Do anyone of you still do tape backups, or have everyone moved to hdd backups? ... Anyone using DVD or bluerays for backups, or other exotic solutions?

I back up the workstations to a local fileserver, using rsynch/cron or moral equivalents thereof. The fileserver backs itself up to a remote fileserver, using rsynch/cron. The remote fileserver is RAID-something (I forget exactly), but gets backed up to tape periodically. Crucial stuff that doesn't change often (set-up files, config files, etc.) gets backed up to local CD-ROM when something changes. Workstations all have DVD-writers, and the users know how to use them.

The occasional man-overboard drill attempts to ensure that we can actually rebuild any system completely and quickly.

I'm paranoid, you say? Nah, just experienced.

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