VBOB / Smoke / PS3 / Lots of little boxes.

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uunix
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VBOB / Smoke / PS3 / Lots of little boxes.

Unread postby uunix » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:59 am

Well, I've been working now on this for some time, and from a knowledge rating of Zero, I think I'm now past the 3 Mark.

Setup:
PS3 outputting and 1080i from HDMI to a HDMI-SD convertor.

HDMI-SD convertor goes to HDi input on VBOB

VBOB HDi Output goes to SD-HDMI Convertor - TV input.

The above works fine. VBOB shows correct input

Code: Select all

vbob> v
vbob/video> s
HD1 is 1080i 5994
HD2 is Not Present
SD1 is Not Present
SD2 is Not Present
HD Analog in is ANALOG_TIMING_NOT_PRESENT
SD Analog in is ANALOG_TIMING_NOT_PRESENT
vbob/video>


TV on shows correct multi-coloured test bar as expected from the VBOB that hasn't been initialized.

So I start the SMOKE and set the project to the following:

PROJECT: 1920x1080HD 1080 - 10bit Field 1 - 12bit Graphics
Timings: 1920x1080

Start Project OK - Select Default for the source files - Select Import clip.

So I now get, TV output (ON TV) and source output on monitor.
smoke1.JPG

But the problem is, no matter what I do, the source on the monitor is too big and I cannot use any of the save/modify etc buttons
smoke2.JPG

You see how on image 2, the preview is over lapping, plus obviously too big for the screen.
I've tried the resize options on the previous screen, but they have no effect.

As stated, I've gone from zero knowledge on this product, and the newer documents are no help. I just need the preview to be smaller.

Any old SMOKE users out there?

Many thanks.
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Re: VBOB / Smoke / PS3 / Lots of little boxes.

Unread postby gocram » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:59 am

uunix wrote:Setup:
PS3 outputting and 1080i from HDMI to a HDMI-SD convertor.

What's the pixel shape (e.g. square) and aspect ratio? (HDMI to HD-SDI hopefully, not SD-SDI..?)


HDMI-SD convertor goes to HDi input on VBOB

VBOB HDi Output goes to SD-HDMI Convertor - TV input.

(‘HDI’, HD-SDI I assume you mean? Just to be sure.)


So I start the SMOKE and set the project to the following:

PROJECT: 1920x1080HD 1080 - 10bit Field 1 - 12bit Graphics
Timings: 1920x1080

Seems alright so far, I guess. 10-bit isn't necessary (judging by the source and assuming it's just a consumer [e.g.] Bluray disc of some type), unless you're working with other footage, too.


So I now get, TV output (ON TV) and source output on monitor.
But the problem is, no matter what I do, the source on the monitor is too big and I cannot use any of the save/modify etc buttons

The aspect ratio appears to be very wide, more than 16:9 in my estimation... but apparently not correct either on the TV monitor output, as the image appears to be warped horizontally (shapes appear to be ‘wider’ than they should be). You probably need to change/create a new project with the proper aspect ratio applied. You may also want to go through your Smoke configuration file(s), depending on the version of Smoke usually in:

Code: Select all

/usr/discreet/smoke_${version}/cfg/init.cfg
# or...
/usr/discreet/smoke_${version}/cfg/default.cfg



You see how on image 2, the preview is over lapping, plus obviously too big for the screen.
I've tried the resize options on the previous screen, but they have no effect.

Correct, because ‘resize’ is an optional operation that occurs post-ingestion.

There's also a noticeable difference between the picture's proportions, compare the more oval to the more circular shape of the head on both monitors.

Depending on what kind of HDMI<=>(HD-)SDI converter you use, how ‘capable’ it is, you may end up having to buy an HDMI scaler (Gefen is renown for making quality scalers, but those may be a bit pricey, else you can look into budget brands), certainly else between the (HD-)SDI<=>HDMI converter.
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Re: VBOB / Smoke / PS3 / Lots of little boxes.

Unread postby uunix » Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:06 am

gocram wrote:
uunix wrote:Setup:
PS3 outputting and 1080i from HDMI to a HDMI-SD convertor.

What's the pixel shape (e.g. square) and aspect ratio? (HDMI to HD-SDI hopefully, not SD-SDI..?)

This question has gone over my head.. I reckon this is knowledge 4 and upwards.
But, as for the out put on the TV, it's an LG TV that is super super wide.
I've looked at the output settings on the PS3 and it's 1080i - 720p - 576p.
On playback, 1080p 24 Hz HDMI output is disabled (meaning films recorded above 24Hz will NOT go to 1080p (which is what I want)

HDMI-SD convertor goes to HDi input on VBOB

VBOB HDi Output goes to SD-HDMI Convertor - TV input.

(‘HDI’, HD-SDI I assume you mean? Just to be sure.)
Yes..

So I start the SMOKE and set the project to the following:

PROJECT: 1920x1080HD 1080 - 10bit Field 1 - 12bit Graphics
Timings: 1920x1080

Seems alright so far, I guess. 10-bit isn't necessary (judging by the source and assuming it's just a consumer [e.g.] Bluray disc of some type), unless you're working with other footage, too.
The footage is all coming from SERVIIO media server, and I've tried multiple films etc, and the on monitor display is the same.

So I now get, TV output (ON TV) and source output on monitor.
But the problem is, no matter what I do, the source on the monitor is too big and I cannot use any of the save/modify etc buttons

The aspect ratio appears to be very wide, more than 16:9 in my estimation... but apparently not correct either on the TV monitor output, as the image appears to be warped horizontally (shapes appear to be ‘wider’ than they should be). You probably need to change/create a new project with the proper aspect ratio applied. You may also want to go through your Smoke configuration file(s), depending on the version of Smoke usually in:

Code: Select all

/usr/discreet/smoke_${version}/cfg/init.cfg
# or...
/usr/discreet/smoke_${version}/cfg/default.cfg


Yes I've looked at that intensely. surely though changing the project at start up sets the config file? If not I will indeed start a new project.

You see how on image 2, the preview is over lapping, plus obviously too big for the screen.
I've tried the resize options on the previous screen, but they have no effect.

Correct, because ‘resize’ is an optional operation that occurs post-ingestion.

There's also a noticeable difference between the picture's proportions, compare the more oval to the more circular shape of the head on both monitors.

Depending on what kind of HDMI<=>(HD-)SDI converter you use, how ‘capable’ it is, you may end up having to buy an HDMI scaler (Gefen is renown for making quality scalers, but those may be a bit pricey, else you can look into budget brands), certainly else between the (HD-)SDI<=>HDMI converter.


Regarding the convertors, if I plug both in line to the TV (that is.. HDMI out from PS3 to HDMI-SD convertor to SD-HDMI Convertor to TV) they work fine.

Is there no way to control the source output on the monitor?

gocram, many thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions.
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Re: VBOB / Smoke / PS3 / Lots of little boxes.

Unread postby uunix » Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:24 am

These 2 pictures may be better (taken in the dark).

Film is paused.

First image of the monitor, second of the TV:
smoke3.JPG

smoke4.JPG
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Re: VBOB / Smoke / PS3 / Lots of little boxes.

Unread postby gocram » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:34 am

uunix wrote:On playback, 1080p 24 Hz HDMI output is disabled (meaning films recorded above 24Hz will NOT go to 1080p (which is what I want)

That's probably because the PlayStation 3 doesn't support it, I'm guessing...


Is there no way to control the source output on the monitor?

Not if the converters won't do it, in other words if they don't have scaler functionality built-in. In which case, I'd recommend you to look into getting an HDMI scaler.


gocram, many thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions.

No problem, glad to help an enthusiastic SGI and IFFFS user.
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Re: VBOB / Smoke / PS3 / Lots of little boxes.

Unread postby uunix » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:46 am

So, in the words of Martin [Broady..] "we're gonna need a bigger boat.. I mean Monitor" (or a scaler).
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Re: VBOB / Smoke / PS3 / Lots of little boxes.

Unread postby gocram » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:52 am

It may be something HDCP-related, too, I just realized. I'd look into it, just to be sure, in which case a scaler may not work out either (or depending on the scaler).
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Re: VBOB / Smoke / PS3 / Lots of little boxes.

Unread postby uunix » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:01 pm

Copy-rite-protection?

OK possibly a newbie question related to the input on the VBOB..

Output (from PS3) @ 1080i and 1080p goes to the HD port (On VBOB).
Output (from PS3) @ 720p goes to the SD port (On VBOB).
Output (from PS3) @ 576p goes to the SD port (On VBOB).
Simple as that? [I'm doubting the answer will be a simple yes]
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Re: VBOB / Smoke / PS3 / Lots of little boxes.

Unread postby uunix » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:13 pm

So, after a bit more testing, I have an input of CIRC601 625 (although nothing to show because I have no SD input source yet) but lights indicate input.

With the passing of each year.. it becomes clearer.
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Re: VBOB / Smoke / PS3 / Lots of little boxes.

Unread postby uunix » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:25 pm

Would this be good (bit expensive but if it saves me hours each night than it may be worth it)



Or something similar..

I presume this will let me convert 'stuff' to SD/HD - By stuff I suppose, Analogue/VCR/RGB component/composite?
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Re: VBOB / Smoke / PS3 / Lots of little boxes.

Unread postby uunix » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:19 pm

gocram, I don't think you realise, how much you have progressed me.

I'm on 720p input and things are looking much better. I understand now the importance of the Timing setting.
smoke6.JPG

I have more controls and you can see the monitor is coping with 95% of the wide screen behind.

Could possibly do with bringing it down another notch, but 567p seems out of grasp at the moment. Don't mess with something that's nearly working!!

Thanks again gocram.
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Re: VBOB / Smoke / PS3 / Lots of little boxes.

Unread postby uunix » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:44 am

Has anyone got recommendations for an up/down video scaler.

I'm guessing I need something that converts to SD/HD from all the other types so that I can connect to VBOB.

I'm also guessing I may have to pay a bit for said item.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: VBOB / Smoke / PS3 / Lots of little boxes.

Unread postby gocram » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:10 pm

The aspect doesn't appear to be correct on the TV monitor... (Also in 720p.) It looks like the TV monitor can't properly detect and/or set the right aspect ratio. (Or maybe you could see if the picture is perhaps set to ‘stretch’ instead of ‘fit’/‘preserve aspect’ or so?)

As for scalers, well, I'm sure there are some budget brands. Maybe you'll find a good deal on a second-hand top-of-the-line scaler, like of Gefen? I also have one I may want to sell. (Even with official UK power cable included, in the original box... But, I fear I can't let go off it very cheaply, as it was quite expensive.)
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Re: VBOB / Smoke / PS3 / Lots of little boxes.

Unread postby uunix » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:36 pm

The TV/Monitor is a bit of a rare one in that it's super super wide and designed to display a full computer display + TV at the same time. Maybe it's giving the wrong impression and I'll change it with the standard one I normally watch TV on for clarification.

But what I was saying, is that even with the stretch TV, at 720p you can see more of the Source image on the monitor?

I'm currently looking at http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111589772575? ... EBIDX%3AIT on ebay

At this moment in time, I have to get myself back on earth.. I'm not worried about hi def super duper, what I'd like to do more is interact with VHS and other analogue type things, convert to SD and utilize the A/V2 on my o2 also. Finding something that goes Analogue to SD/HD is hard though, I have the gear to do the other way, but this is the missing link analogue!
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Re: VBOB / Smoke / PS3 / Lots of little boxes.

Unread postby uunix » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:40 pm

The greatest thing though gocram at the moment, is the confidence that I can turn it all on, and know how to get picture on monitor / TV and record it.. before, Id' do something to get it working, then it would take a week to reproduce and then I'd not know what I did the next time lol.
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