old editing indigo2, irix 5.3 no xfs

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omelett
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old editing indigo2, irix 5.3 no xfs

Unread postby omelett » Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:12 pm

friend gave me his 1995 editing tool: an indigo2 with irix 5.3 (6.2 or 6.5 are impossible) and avid media suite pro version1.01d.
license string is 62 character long. it was quite a hassle to extract it properly diuring inst from 11 year old fax.
avid sold ms also with the indy, but never seen version above 1.0 :(

(can post hinv bit later :| ) - indigo2 has 384MB ram, r4k/250 cpu, galileovideo & compression cards and xz gfx.
xl24 gfx is better for video editing, but they are very rare to get in eu. see:
http://www.futuretech.blinkenlights.nl/ ... html#3.2.2

so i have a question, how to zap up irix 5.3 with xfs.
now, only efs is possible, along with 8gb partitionsizelimitation.
not the best for video, even with compression.
from release notes:
For Indigo users:Due to the low disk I/O bandwidth on Indigo's,
Media Suite Pro user's may not be able to play video with four tracks of audio.
If problems occur,mixdown the four tracks of audio to mtwo tracks.
Increased performance can be gained if you use IRIX 5.3 with the xFS file system.
If you run the application in this environment it requires xFS patches 288 and 307.

is there any possibillity to get 5.3 xfs subsystem ?
would make a great motivation, to setup (& work with) this nice mashine ;)
any ideas?

omelett

jdboyd
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Re: old editing indigo2, irix 5.3 no xfs

Unread postby jdboyd » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:37 pm

I don't have any advice, but please post screen shots when you get it working.

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Re: old editing indigo2, irix 5.3 no xfs

Unread postby SAQ » Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:17 pm

Backup your existing system disks, put your IRIX 5.3 with XFS CD-ROM in the drive, stop for maintenance, select "install system software" and take it from there. If you want to move to an XFS systemdisk, you'll have to dump and restore the filesystem (not too much fun, but not impossible either). The easier way would be to install IRIX 5.3 with XFS and use a scratch disk in an external enclosure (to put it on SCSI channel 1 away from your systemdisk traffic) with an XFS filesystem.

Before you go to all this trouble, you might want to figure out how much you'll really use the system.
"Brakes??? What Brakes???"

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omelett
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Re: old editing indigo2, irix 5.3 no xfs

Unread postby omelett » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:00 am

SAQ wrote:put your IRIX 5.3 with XFS CD-ROM in the drive

sorry SAQ, this is exactly my problem, i have 3 IRIX 5.3 system CD's but can't find nothing XFS related in the dist directory.

SAQ wrote: use a scratch disk in an external enclosure (to put it on SCSI channel 1 away from your systemdisk traffic) with an XFS filesystem.

yes i would like to use 2 external drives as raid, but i would try to put each hd on his own scsi bus, increasing the theoretical datarate to and from the storage.

SAQ wrote:Before you go to all this trouble, you might want to figure out how much you'll really use the system.

yes, this is a good question.
would like to use it for blueboxlivecapture in the studio.
then ftp the data to the mac and/or o2 for further editing.

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omelett
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Re: old editing indigo2, irix 5.3 no xfs

Unread postby omelett » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:06 am

jdboyd wrote:I don't have any advice, but please post screen shots when you get it working.

o.k., be patient wit me :)

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Re: old editing indigo2, irix 5.3 no xfs

Unread postby josehill » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:04 am

omelett wrote:yes i would like to use 2 external drives as raid, but i would try to put each hd on his own scsi bus, increasing the theoretical datarate to and from the storage.

Just remember that the system will need a commercial plex license if you plan to implement the RAID via software.

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Re: old editing indigo2, irix 5.3 no xfs

Unread postby SAQ » Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:01 pm

IRIX 5.3+XFS was a separate product from IRIX 5.3. In general, you need to be careful with the 5.3 series because they tend to be extremely picky about what hardware they like (some don't like the faster R4400s in Indigo2, some work with only one or two models - basically the IRIX 4.0.5(x) fiasco all over again). I'm not sure if 5.3+XFS works on the 2MB SC PMs (such as your PM5).

You might want to try cloning the disk onto a spare (see Ian's website) and transforming it into an IRIX 6.2 install - 6.2 has substantial improvements over 5.3.
"Brakes??? What Brakes???"

"I am O SH-- the Great and Powerful"

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Re: old editing indigo2, irix 5.3 no xfs

Unread postby SAQ » Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:03 pm

josehill wrote:
omelett wrote:yes i would like to use 2 external drives as raid, but i would try to put each hd on his own scsi bus, increasing the theoretical datarate to and from the storage.

Just remember that the system will need a commercial plex license if you plan to implement the RAID via software.


Unless it's a stripeset.
"Brakes??? What Brakes???"

"I am O SH-- the Great and Powerful"

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Re: old editing indigo2, irix 5.3 no xfs

Unread postby bjornl » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:08 pm

You also need a different version of the CDROM base tray to get an external connector for the internal scsi bus.
http://www.futuretech.blinkenlights.nl/i2info.html#7.1

You could of course stripe an internal and an external disk.

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Re: old editing indigo2, irix 5.3 no xfs

Unread postby SAQ » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:41 pm

Per Gerhard's site IRIX 5.3 with XFS is not available in a version that runs on the 200MHz/2MB SC or 250MHz/2MB SC Indigo2s.

You're stuck with what you've got or move to 6.2
"Brakes??? What Brakes???"

"I am O SH-- the Great and Powerful"

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omelett
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Re: old editing indigo2, irix 5.3 no xfs

Unread postby omelett » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:53 am

thanks for your opinions !
this (old avid) project seems not to be the best solution, to spend time on.
avid seems also not very stable for everydaywork....its running ONLY with IRIX 5.2 AND 5.3
( i have two versions of 5.3 - the 'normal' one & one with 2MB secondary level cache support,
which i have inst. now on the indigo. )
maybe its better for me to use the hardware ( galileo , cosmo) along with moviemaker and 6.5.22m

video-overlay's on the screenshots are not there, don't know why.
here are some screenshots :
((sorry, i don't know how to post the graphicfiles here, could someone help?))
here is link to the screenshots : (tar archive for download)
http://w15.easy-share.com/15563771.html

omelett

jdboyd
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Re: old editing indigo2, irix 5.3 no xfs

Unread postby jdboyd » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:32 am

omelett wrote:thanks for your opinions !
this (old avid) project seems not to be the best solution, to spend time on.
avid seems also not very stable for everydaywork....its running ONLY with IRIX 5.2 AND 5.3
( i have two versions of 5.3 - the 'normal' one & one with 2MB secondary level cache support,
which i have inst. now on the indigo. )
maybe its better for me to use the hardware ( galileo , cosmo) along with moviemaker and 6.5.22m

video-overlay's on the screenshots are not there, don't know why.
here are some screenshots :
((sorry, i don't know how to post the graphicfiles here, could someone help?))
here is link to the screenshots : (tar archive for download)
http://w15.easy-share.com/15563771.html


If you decide to go with 6.5.22m, please aquire a new harddrive so that you can preserve the software on the old harddrive. If you were in the US, I'd offer to give you a drive. Since you are not in the US, hopefully someone over there will offer you a free drive.

Also, thanks for the screenshots. Is the first one shown badly because of overlays? Does anyone know?

Could we put these in the Nekochan gallery somehow?

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mapesdhs
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Re: old editing indigo2, irix 5.3 no xfs

Unread postby mapesdhs » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:03 pm

SAQ wrote:Per Gerhard's site IRIX 5.3 with XFS is not available in a version that runs on the 200MHz/2MB SC or 250MHz/2MB SC Indigo2s.


Actually, yes you can, but the installation must be done in the following way:

1. Replace the CPU with one that only has 1MB L2, eg. R4K/200 (1MB).

2. Install 5.3 with XFS.

3. Apply the latest patch set.

4. Put back the CPU with 2MB L2.

This works ok as the patch updates fix the 2MB L2 issue. To be precise, this is the order of
CD installation that I use to build a full 5.3 system:

- Whichever version of 5.3 is appropriate, plus any updates such as XFS
- Desktop Special Edition
- Iris Development Option 5.3
- NFS
- IRIX 5.3 for Indy 100 to 200 MHz August 1995 (just certain items)
- Open Inventor
- ImageVision
- Cosmo Software
- Pascal
- Performer
- Patches for IRIX 5.3 with XFS
- Freeware


However, the patch set does not update the OS to a form that supports IMPACT.

Thus, the following combinations are possible:

- CPU with 2MB L2, OS with XFS, but gfx must not be IMPACT,

- CPU with less than 2MB L2, OS with XFS, gfx can be IMPACT,

- CPU with 2MB L2, OS does not have XFS, gfx can be IMPACT.

But what is not possible by normal means is all three aspects in the same system, ie.
XFS support, IMPACT gfx and 2MB L2 support. Bummer...

I did once try messing around with copying kernel files, etc. between systems to
try and get a manual-rigged version working, but no luck, though I'm not an expert
on this sort of thing. It could very well be possible, but I don't have the knowledge,
and these days there's not enough demand for it to be worth the time investigating.

It's a shame SGI never rolled up the various 5.3 releases; it would have been nice
to have an R4K/250 MaxIMPACT running 5.3/XFS - quite a nippy response compared
to the more resource-hungry 6.2/6.5.

Ian.

SAQ
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Re: old editing indigo2, irix 5.3 no xfs

Unread postby SAQ » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:02 am

Didn't realize you could do that with XFS - I had done it for a time with IRIX 5.3 (install on PM3, patch, install PM5). (only had the 1994 disks) and a PM5. The only reason I can think of for not doing rollups (it seems it would have been much easier to manage, they'd have only had to deal with one diskset (the latest)) would be that they'd have to test against all systems, which would have been quite difficult for 5.3 (many systems supported).
"Brakes??? What Brakes???"

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Re: old editing indigo2, irix 5.3 no xfs

Unread postby Greggl » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:17 pm

I ran MSP on an Indy with some old striped Segate Hawk drives and it actually ran really well.

I'd try just testing it with a decent, fast SCSI drive. The modern high-speed drives should
keep up with the bus speed. You may not have to jump though any hoops for this one.

I'd test and react if you're dropping frames.


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