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Re: Current State of Nekoware / otherware

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:16 am
by jan-jaap
I think you mixed up a few things as far as MIPSpro goes, at least.

The MIPSpro frontend (source parser) was licensed from the Edison Design Group. EDG supplied various other compiler vendors at the time and I believe the Intel Linux compilers still use it.

The MIPSpro intermediate (WHIRL) and backend was written by SGI. When SGI moved to IA64 years later, they added an IA64 code generator, and yanked out all the obsolete MIPS bits.

They open-sourced various parts of the compiler, but couldn't release the EDG frontend because it wasn't theirs. So they welded a GNU frontend on it which generates WHIRL instead of RTL. This MIPSpro-for-IA64 was released as Pro64 and was later renamed Open64.

Open64 served as a research vehicle for a couple of years, new targets for x86-64 and MIPS (not related to MIPSpro!) were added, but seems to be dead now.

As far as I'm aware, clang doesn't use the EDG frontend. It would certainly be interesting to get a MIPS BE target of clang up and running on IRIX, but the IRIX implementation of the ELF format has a couple of quirks which might make that a challenge.

Re: Current State of Nekoware / otherware

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:50 am
by Trippynet
That would be fantastic if it could be done. A modern/updated MIPSPro compiler (even with a different name) would be very useful indeed. Especially of course since GCC has dropped support for IRIX, so that's only going to steadily grow further out of date over time. Of course, I assume it's still capable of generating decent MIPS4 code...

Edit: Reading jan-jaaps post (added whilst I wrote this), might have guessed there's a bit more to it...

Re: Current State of Nekoware / otherware

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:39 am
by diegel
I still have no idea what you want with an updated MipsPro. There is no such a thing like a miracle compiler that makes run current open source on an O2 as fast as on any up to date hardware. MipsPro builds in many situations faster code than gcc, but we are talking about 10% or maybe 20%. We have to face the reality: the current iphone is faster than any Tezro and there will never be any compiler that will change this.

If we want to port current open source to Irix we need a lot of programming skills, because this code is build for Linux and possibly BSD. The folks that wrote this code has no idea that Irix ever exists. And there will never be a miracle compiler, that will port this code for us.

Re: Current State of Nekoware / otherware

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:54 pm
by necron2600
I'm around to help test...

For the past few months, I fully use an SGI for day to day work, and after work. I'm already forgetting how to use Windows and/or MacOSX and their apps. The macs and PCs are turned off, save a few VMs to RDP into for some specific webbrowsing or using Office tools/outlook required by my work. The Tezro was too loud so I ended up quieting an O2 r5k 300mhz with a fan replacement and have been happy with it. It prints fine, it has a scanner, outputs sound to a receiver for some good audio, and a video input card where I can have microscopes or stereoscopes displaying on the desktop (hobby), or even an iphone playing youtube or netflix through the video-in.

I'm a systems engineer / IT admin-type by trade. SSH, VNC, Rdesktop are my main tools. A Vmware ESX farm is always a click away with all sorts of Operating Systems available. Daily work involves diagramming/UML, documentation, spreadsheets, even 3d-modeling helps with creating presentations (3d-network designs, etc..). Ruby and Python.. as well as some Tcl/TK are also part of my toolset with IRIX. Cybersecurity tasks using python scripts. IRIX has been a dream for me to use daily even today in 2015. IRIX is about getting down to business... with a side of classic games.

Any way we can get a newer java JDK? That would open up a new world of possibilities with applications for IRIX! OpenJDK, etc..

Dia... I agree we need a newer version.

Any way to open/convert .docx and .xlsx formats would be a big bonus for Irix. For me.. AbiWord, and Prophet, for tables/spreadsheets, work well (and Framemaker and Wordperfect are rock solid too).. but nothing with docx/xlsx that the rest of the world seems to expect.

Another spreadsheet application? At least NeXTStep had Lotus Improv ;)

Mplayer.. thanks for all the hard work that was put into this recently! For youtube videos, I still have to use youtube-dl to get 3gp format though (low quality but usually watchable), mp4 videos still give me a black screen most of the time.

Ruby.. I could use a more recent version. Also.. I am never able to install Ruby gems that have native code (compile on IRIX). If I could get Ruby with the "rvc" gem.. I could manage Vmware ESX/vsphere systems from IRIX on the command line! Plus, with Ruby I can create webapps.. manipulate LDAP or Database servers, etc.

Thunderbird is still so sluggish (it is better on a Tezro though). Slypheed is super fast.. but the current nekoware version does not support SPAM filtering. I tried compiling several newer versions.. they all compile fine but usually core dump opening any Inbox (but any other IMAP folder works fine). Newer versions of Sylpheed support SPAM filtering.. and sylfilter (for spam filtering) compiles cleanly on IRIX (need to compile GDBM first and use that and disable using sqlite.. an error with nekoware's sqlite occurs if you dont.)

Is a newer version of Blender possible? Our version is getting a bit outdated.. where it cannot open newer files very well.

transmission-bt .. or any torrent client that supports UDP trackers?

GNUCash ? Would save me from SoftWindows95 and an old version of Quicken.

Another game to see compiling on Irix could be Warzone 2100. The earlier versions need some OpenAL for 3D sound that I couldnt get to compile. Newer versions needed newer libs than what nekoware has available.
[EDIT: OpenAL works fine from nekoware ]

-Kevin

Re: Current State of Nekoware / otherware

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:28 pm
by hamei
necron2600 wrote:Any way to open/convert .docx and .xlsx formats would be a big bonus for Irix ... but nothing with docx/xlsx that the rest of the world seems to expect.

Getting a little off dexter1's topic here but a few things miight help you ... I've hunted everywhere for a docx-doc converter. To me, this is a big indication of the change in computing - in the old days someone would have coded up a commandline converter. Now there's nothing.

Online converter :(

Another spreadsheet application?


I did find the source for Axene, which is

1) Motif
2) supposedly reads / writes Excel spreadsheets

I'd love to see the Axene programs run in Irix.

There is SIAG somewhere here - it is supposed to read xls files but the program is more than somewhat goofy.

mp4 videos still give me a black screen most of the time.

Must be the O2 :( All the mp4's I tried on the O350 were fine, haven't tried too many on the Octane yet. Most videos so far on the Octane seem to be okay. Agreed, neko MPlayer is a highlight. If we can get dexter1 and axatax back on that train, it'd be a winnah ! winnah ! :D

Thunderbird is still so sluggish ...

I use Tbird only because I have so much mail already in it and too lazy to change. Not too slow on an Octane. Ishmail runs great tho and it's more Irrixy. You might try that.

GNUCash ? Would save me from SoftWindows95 and an old version of Quicken.

LedgerSMB runs in Irix. Might be overkill tho :D

Re: Current State of Nekoware / otherware

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:30 pm
by foetz
necron2600 wrote:with Ruby I can create webapps.. manipulate LDAP or Database servers, etc.

you can do that with php

Re: Current State of Nekoware / otherware

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:51 pm
by vishnu
rosehillbob wrote:What this means right now people are basically running an updated version of our MipsPro compiler under MIPS Linux!
I think we should get the compiler working back under SGI!

Oh, LLVM eh? I wasn't notified I'll have to clear it... :lol:

Re: Current State of Nekoware / otherware

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:29 am
by vishnu
rosehillbob wrote:What this means right now people are basically running an updated version of our MipsPro compiler under MIPS Linux!
I think we should get the compiler working back under SGI!

Uh, so would that be this? Link: https://github.com/penberg/linux-kvm/tree/master/tools/kvm

Looks like it's got a long way to go to be a replacement for MIPSPro. :roll:

Update-wise I did some more hacking on Maxwell and got it to where it compiles, but their goofy-ass build system doesn't create the executable until you do "make install," at which point it fails miserably on some kind of weird dependency check. Still hacking... :|

Re: Current State of Nekoware / otherware

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:15 am
by dexter1
Because of the recent development posts in Maxwell, I have split the topic. Maxwell development is now in viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16730190

Re: Current State of Nekoware / otherware

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:50 am
by jimmer
hamei wrote:I use Tbird only because I have so much mail already in it


ehrmmm... IMAP not available in the Middle Kingdom?

Image

Re: Current State of Nekoware / otherware

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:08 am
by hamei
jimmer wrote:ehrmmm... IMAP not available in the Middle Kingdom?

Not a fan of IMAP, unless it's on my own server. And that's a beetch these days -- "It's from CHIIIIINA ! Oh noes ! Block it before those devious orientals overwhelm us with their intellectual superiority !"

Those yrgltworps don't even do that to Nigeria, but Chiiiiina ! ... :cry:

Re: Current State of Nekoware / otherware

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:43 am
by armanox
hamei wrote:
jimmer wrote:ehrmmm... IMAP not available in the Middle Kingdom?

Not a fan of IMAP, unless it's on my own server. And that's a beetch these days -- "It's from CHIIIIINA ! Oh noes ! Block it before those devious orientals overwhelm us with their intellectual superiority !"

Those yrgltworps don't even do that to Nigeria, but Chiiiiina ! ... :cry:

Au contraire....I block all of Africa, Middle East, and Eastern Europe, in addition to China. If I had need I'd white list as needed (as I've done for a couple of Russian sites), but I block based on where the majority of my attacks have come from.

Re: Current State of Nekoware / otherware

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:05 pm
by hamei
armanox wrote:Au contraire....I block all of Africa, Middle East, and Eastern Europe, in addition to China. If I had need I'd white list as needed (as I've done for a couple of Russian sites), but I block based on where the majority of my attacks have come from.

In the interests of nekochan peace and harmony I will not say a word. But you can bet your sweet bippy I am thinking some very harsh thoughts.

Re: Current State of Nekoware / otherware

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:23 pm
by armanox
hamei wrote:
armanox wrote:Au contraire....I block all of Africa, Middle East, and Eastern Europe, in addition to China. If I had need I'd white list as needed (as I've done for a couple of Russian sites), but I block based on where the majority of my attacks have come from.

In the interests of nekochan peace and harmony I will not say a word. But you can bet your sweet bippy I am thinking some very harsh thoughts.

Fair enough - we're not here to start a war, but to cooperate. If it makes you feel any better I'll soon be blocking all inbound connections from non-US IP addresses at work to simplify things even more. We do not target nor have any clients outside the US and US territories

Re: Current State of Nekoware / otherware

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:42 pm
by hamei
armanox wrote: I'll soon be blocking all inbound connections from non-US IP addresses at work to simplify things even more. We do not target nor have any clients outside the US and US territories

What I've found works really good is to replace the index.html with just a phone number. Then anyone wanting to access your site can call in and get a permission form.

Mail that off to them, get all the data you need plus a certificate of no criminal record, their social security number, driver's license number, a full medical report and IRS returns covering the past twenty years and you're all set. Check the returned forms against the FBI, CIA and NSA databases and you'll probably be safe.

Big bubbles, no troubles :D