The True Future Of Blender On IRIX, By Ton Roosendaal

3D/2D CGI and the tools used in their creation (Maya, Photoshop, Blender, GIMP, etc.).
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GeneratriX
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Re: Blender

Unread postby GeneratriX » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:09 pm

skywriter wrote:
GeneratriX wrote:
skywriter wrote:- it's just not a priority.


...And it is not my priority at all, just a good wish.


Yeah, and i got my new honey-of-a-car-Volvo :) spend all my time building in horsepower, torque, valentine one radar detector, and 10 cd track changer :) *once a gearhead always a gearhead*

oooh! i hit a penquin the other day, but he washed right off, didn't even leave a scratch. hmmm vanity plates? TUXITUP ??


Well, men; since it is the second time that you make reference to these new car, and even when it looks a little bit sidetracked for this thread, seems that now is the time to say it:

CONGRATULLATIONS; ENJOY YOUR NEW CAR!!! :lol:

By The Way: ...penguins will not leave a scratch on any car, they are very slippery creatures; pretty much the same as those management peoples... 8)

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Re: Blender

Unread postby skywriter » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:35 am

GeneratriX wrote: CONGRATULLATIONS; ENJOY YOUR NEW CAR!!! :lol:



it's a 2001, and good share lot's of fun :)

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GeneratriX
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Re: Blender

Unread postby GeneratriX » Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:35 am

skywriter wrote:
GeneratriX wrote: CONGRATULLATIONS; ENJOY YOUR NEW CAR!!! :lol:



it's a 2001, and good share lot's of fun :)


Oh; it is cool anyway! The age of a car does not matters at all if all what you want is funny times! ...I've enjoyed by many years from my American Dynamic's Willys jeep, and it was built by the year 1942!!! :P

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Unread postby skywriter » Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:50 pm

ok, after about a year or more, who's going to setup up the independent CVS for the IRIX only blender fork?


viewtopic.php?t=2643&start=0

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GeneratriX
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Blender Builds...

Unread postby GeneratriX » Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:22 pm

skywriter wrote:ok, after about a year or more, who's going to setup up the independent CVS for the IRIX only blender fork?


viewtopic.php?t=2643&start=0


Okay men; count me in. Just let us know the way on which you want to proceed. Also, as I've posted infinite times, I can't work on it on a permanent base, but you can have from me a pretty extensive collaboration.

skywriter wrote:Great! I'll clip a version of the tree that "works", and document the freeware source versions required this week. i would like to get this project based on irix development tools:
MipsPro7.3.1.3m
WorkShop_2.9.1
SpeedShop_1.4.3
dbx_7.3.3
and either 6.5.15 or 6.5.21 which are the two version sof irix i have. .21 has wierdness from the 7.4 runtimes, and i have to resolve that somehow. but .15 worked up until blender 2.33 library update.

i'm not sure if workshop requires standard make, but the makefiles with blender only work with gmake (blah). they will be the first thing to fix if that gets in the way.


There we have a problem... :roll:
My Development/Build platform is an O2 as follows:

MIPSpro Compilers: Version 7.4.3m
WorkShop Version 2.9.2 (86441_Nov11 MR)
SpeedShop Version 1.4.4 (86279_Nov04 MR)
dbx version 7.3.4 (86441_Nov11 MR) Nov 11 2002 11:31:55

uname -aR
6.5 6.5.28m 07010238 IP32

...I guess the it clears a little one of my possible roles there, maybe building some version optimized for newer setups... Also, my box is free of any SGI Freeware; only Nekoware here... Well, more I think about that, and more logical seems to me the use of my setup for some alternative version...

I don't know: What do you think?

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Unread postby gandalf » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:18 am

I have to jum in this discussion...

blender on IRIX interests me quite a bit, because it is a nice piece of software, because it is small and light etc etc... (also essentially the only decent 3D package you get for irix, mac, linux and windows...)

right now I am overly busy, but some months ago I tried to get involved in the irix effort. I got the nice help from guys as Hos and other chaps from the blendercoder channel, including ton himself (to be honest, ton makes always correct statements, often says true things but is rarely of real help...).

I found it very difficult to compile blender on IRIX, compared to other platforms. The configure system came in but worked badly. I think it is out again. THe whole thing is full of small things to check for if you system is not "standard". The effect that I tried to build on three or four computers with gcc 2.95, gcc3 and mipspro and rarely succeeded. I remember I got it really building only on one I think.
It is a problem with the pre-built libraries for example...

I needed this because that crappy ghost thing is full of big and small bugs on X11. Yes, the bugs affects linux and irix and solaris, but often you don't notice that on all platforms. THe problem is, there are few/no skilled developers for X11.
Specifically there is abug that causes an incredible CPU usage on IRIX with mouse position tracking, you can notice that very well on older, express based boxes. I notice it little on a 5K indy and not at all on an octane, but my indigo2 RK4 with XZ... I cn get the CPU to 100% by just moving the mouse! A pity, because even that old machine is actually better to model than my iBook (and belnder on my centrino with radeon just plainly sucks).

Thus SGIs, even if really old, are still quite nice to model in wireframe. For rendering you might move the scene elsewhere.

thus I wasn't really able to help out in blender, I was able to build and check proposed patches... but little more, I have no X11 and OpenGL coding experience. I remain open to support everyone in an unofficial way though. Currently I am not able to get official due to time constraints, not only knowledge constraints.

Then there are many small details that make blender slow on older machines or even buggy to use due to openGL differences. THings which are often even useless (I think about those stupid new menus). And generaly the new ui is "heavier". I miss some things of the old gui. I'd like a cross-breed of them.

another thing that I'd like a lot is blender classic: IRIS GL is much much faster than OpenGL on the same hardware that supports it. There is a blender version that has both binaries and runs also on irix 6.5. I tried it on my indy and my indigo2 and was impressed. Really.

getting glut to work on IrisGL? A Dream.

skywriter has that blender classic project. Imagine blender working on your 4D series, indigo1 or Crimson? wouldn't that rock?
running blender on a skywriter?

skywriter is a very nice chap, but in 2 years I was never able to do anything with him. He has a chronical lack of time and old blender sources are a bit out of order. ANyway I still hoep that we can get together and spur interest in other peoples.

if possible, both paths could be walked: keep new blenders on irix as long as possible (as long as opengl 1.1 can be used or 1.2...) and our own blender fork, starting from an old version and then maybe updating it here and there with interesting new stuff (raytracer, some new UI things, subdiv. surfaces.... and other cool things that got in in blender 2.x) and leaving out useless stuff.

have fun and feel free to contact me for any development help. But don't ask too much :)

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Unread postby lewis » Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:49 am

I've also been trying to build blender with gcc. I've got both 2.37a and the current CVS to build with a bit of mucking about but they both core in the STL before blender even gets started. I gave up. I don't have the real compiler.

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Unread postby lewis » Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:42 am

FYI I think it's impossible to build Blender with gcc. The problem is that it needs to link in the GLU library, which brings the SGI C++ library libC with it, which conflicts horribly with gcc's own C++ library, libstdc++. Someone else had similar problems with other things, and as far as I know there's no solution - you can't compile C++ programs that use GLU with gcc on Irix. If anyone knows otherwise, pipe up!

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Unread postby jan-jaap » Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:22 am

gandalf wrote:getting glut to work on IrisGL? A Dream.

One of the key differences between IrisGL and OpenGL was that OpenGL was platform independant and thus didn't contain the support for window management and fonts that was in the original GL. GLUT was an attempt to recreate (some of?) the missing functionality using X11 and OpenGL. So, it should be possible to create a GLUT over GL; in fact it should not be more than some kind of a wrapper. Then again, it's been awhile that I did serious work with IrisGL.

gandalf wrote:skywriter has that blender classic project. Imagine blender working on your 4D series, indigo1 or Crimson? wouldn't that rock?
running blender on a skywriter?

Stop teasing me 8)

lewis wrote:FYI I think it's impossible to build Blender with gcc. The problem is that it needs to link in the GLU library, which brings the SGI C++ library libC with it, which conflicts horribly with gcc's own C++ library, libstdc++. Someone else had similar problems with other things, and as far as I know there's no solution - you can't compile C++ programs that use GLU with gcc on Irix. If anyone knows otherwise, pipe up!

What about compiling your own from source, with GCC. Make it a static library and you don't have a clash with what's on IRIX already.
:PI: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Indigo2: :Indigo2: :Indigo2IMP: :Octane: :Octane2: :O2: :O2+: Image :Fuel: :Tezro: :4D70G: :Skywriter: :PWRSeries: :Crimson: :ChallengeL: :Onyx: :O200: :Onyx2: :O3x02L:
To accentuate the special identity of the IRIS 4D/70, Silicon Graphics' designers selected a new color palette. The machine's coating blends dark grey, raspberry and beige colors into a pleasing harmony. (IRIS 4D/70 Superworkstation Technical Report)

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Unread postby lewis » Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:46 am

Your own GLU? That would be quite a task, I think... I wonder how the Mesa one compares...

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Unread postby skywriter » Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:54 am

lewis wrote:FYI I think it's impossible to build Blender with gcc. The problem is that it needs to link in the GLU library, which brings the SGI C++ library libC with it, which conflicts horribly with gcc's own C++ library, libstdc++. Someone else had similar problems with other things, and as far as I know there's no solution - you can't compile C++ programs that use GLU with gcc on Irix. If anyone knows otherwise, pipe up!


i don't know about the last sources. but up until i quit on it, it was compiling on a pure gcc machine, then something broke.... i forgot what, but i thought it was something with either the build system (blah, had to hack some ugly stuff) or STL crap.

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Unread postby skywriter » Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:00 am

jan-jaap wrote:
gandalf wrote:skywriter has that blender classic project. Imagine blender working on your 4D series, indigo1 or Crimson? wouldn't that rock?
running blender on a skywriter?

Stop teasing me 8)



well the 1.8 version and build system (if you figure it out, and it's not too hard too) do work on those old machines. the point of the classic project was to bring the non-c++ blender core back to 1.8, before all the swizzle-glop-gnu-junior-code(tm) was added. but *bing* cronic lack of time. even worse now.

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Unread postby lewis » Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:00 pm

Okely dokely, I've managed to compile the latest CVS with gcc. I had to build libGLU from the OpenGL sample implementation source, which was an adventure in itself, but that removed the dependancy on Irix's C++ libraries and all was well.

Comparing 2.37a built with MIPSPro to my own gcc build, my build is about 20% slower doing the crude draw benchmark. The latest version is about 10% faster, though.

I'll try and package it up, or maybe wait for the 2.4 final, if anyone else even cares :)

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Cool!

Unread postby GeneratriX » Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:12 pm

lewis wrote:I'll try and package it up, or maybe wait for the 2.4 final, if anyone else even cares :)


Of course cares!; Those are really cool news!
I'll give it a try as soon you have it posted.
Cheers! ;)

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Unread postby skywriter » Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:27 pm

lewis wrote:I'll try and package it up, or maybe wait for the 2.4 final, if anyone else even cares :)


so, 2.4-pre still compiles with MIPSPro? that would be nice place to fork, before the opengl 1.1+'s inch their way in.

edit: since it really is a pain in the ass to setup a compilation without an external libs CVS site to download them (python lib, jpeg lib, zlib, etc...) from. there are way too many external GNU-ish crutches to make this easy to compile by itself.


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