"Unlimited Detail" - new rendering technology

3D/2D CGI and the tools used in their creation (Maya, Photoshop, Blender, GIMP, etc.).
Forum rules
Any posts concerning pirated software or offering to buy/sell/trade commercial software are subject to removal.
User avatar
GeneratriX
Posts: 4250
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:07 am
Location: Rosario / Santa Fe / República Argentina

Re: "Unlimited Detail" - new rendering technology

Unread postby GeneratriX » Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:33 pm

...mmmhhh ...interesting. Looking forward to know more about this project.

User avatar
SiliconClassics
Posts: 1477
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: "Unlimited Detail" - new rendering technology

Unread postby SiliconClassics » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:38 am

Some new videos about the "Unlimited Detail" tech here. The claims still sound hard to believe, but if the technology doesn't actually work, one does have to wonder how the images are being generated.

Also, when Comanche came out on the PC in 1993, its Voxel graphics pretty much blew away any polygon-based graphics available at the time, yet it still ran very well on a 486. Computers are now several hundred times faster.

But whatever, I'll believe it when I see a packaged product.
Silicon Classics on: YouTube | Twitter | Google+

User avatar
nekonoko
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 8145
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:31 am
Location: Pleasanton, California
Contact:

Re: "Unlimited Detail" - new rendering technology

Unread postby nekonoko » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:06 am

ajerimez wrote:Also, when Comanche came out on the PC in 1993


The Roland GS MIDI background music in the video is quite 1993 as well :)
Twitter: @neko_no_ko
IRIX Release 4.0.5 IP12 Version 06151813 System V
Copyright 1987-1992 Silicon Graphics, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.

dingofarmer
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:36 am
Location: Northern Colorado

Re: "Unlimited Detail" - new rendering technology

Unread postby dingofarmer » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:27 pm

I think the concept is very similar to "Unlimited Bandwidth". Wait and see......
:Indigo2: :O2000: :ChallengeL: :Indy: :PI:

figgles
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:48 pm

Re: "Unlimited Detail" - new rendering technology

Unread postby figgles » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:17 pm

I think it is really funny that the term "voxel" never came up. It seems to be that, but then again, they made it sound sort of like they were trying to show only outer details, e.g. modeling the surface of a rock. In true voxel system, you'd be able to smash the rock apart and see its yummy insides, which is why those systems are so memory intensive -- space is literally subdivided along three axes and a value assigned at each point.
I figure that if you have an arbitrary shape made up of a point clouds, there isn't any reason to store non-visible points (i.e. points which are inside the rock, the previous example), which kind of leads itself to a run-length encoding sort of algorithm, e.g. this column (some X/Y point in 2D space) of points begins at height value A and goes to height value B in space. Since only the points at (X,Y,A) and (X,Y,B) would ever be visible, it wouldn't require memory usage in the same way that storing individual values at every point in the range (X,Y,A) - (X,Y,B) would like a true voxel system....which probably means that majority of the high resolution surfaces are probably static and non-destructible to minimize memory usage.

Considering the 1-point-to-1-pixel statement, it also makes me wonder whether they are trying raytracing. It probably wouldn't be too collide a ray versus a RLE height column...

I'd also like to see what happens when you zoom up to the point that their "point clouds" or "atom" or whatever start to alias multiple pixels -- if they start forming cubes, then I think I've seen enough. I couldn't tell if that happened much, but I'm talking so close that single pebble takes up my entire 1600x1200 screen. I have this funny feeling the detail wouldn't be unlimited.

Stoo
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:13 am

Re: "Unlimited Detail" - new rendering technology

Unread postby Stoo » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:04 pm

Well, according to the video, the only way you would run out is if you didn't have the point cloud to a high enough resolution, so you'd just have to make sure you had enough data to be able to create the smallest discernible object?
:Octane2: Octane2 Dual R14K 600Mhz, 4GB RAM, VPro V12, DCD, PCI Card Cage, GBit Ethernet
:Indigo2IMP: Indigo2 R10K 195MHz, 1GB RAM, Maximum Impact, I2V
The boxen are breeding... help!

User avatar
zahal
Posts: 837
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 11:43 am

Re: "Unlimited Detail" - new rendering technology

Unread postby zahal » Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:14 am

Megatron-UK wrote:
Makes me cringe when I hear accents like that and realise that's what most people outside the British isles think we all sound like.....


What do you think of Nigel Farage's accent?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gm9q8ua ... re=channel
Sitting in a room.....thinkin' shit up. :evil:

:O2: 400MHz R12k - :320: Dual 600MHz PIII - HP Alphaserver DS15 - Digital DECstation5000/133 - Dell T3500 - Apple G4 Cube dual 500MHz/GF6200 - Newton Messagepad 2100 - Apple PowerBook 2400c/G3@240 - Apple PowerMacintosh 6100/66 - Apple PowerMacintosh 6500/G3@500MHz - Apple Workgroup Server 9150/120 G3@280 - Apple Macintosh IIfx - Apple Macintosh LC475 (OC Full 040 33MHz) - Apple Macintosh Color Classic (Full 040 40Mhz Mystic upgrade) - Sun Cobalt Cube 3 - EBOX 3300A-JSK - Tadpole RDI UltraBook IIi - Compaq Armada 4120 - Digital HiNote Ultra II - HP OmniBook 425 - HP 200LX - Crossbeam C12

Pontus
Posts: 695
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 12:12 pm
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

Re: "Unlimited Detail" - new rendering technology

Unread postby Pontus » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:14 am

A bit of thread-revival here. But they are still on it it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4

Me, I'll believe it when I see it :)
:Onyx2R: :IRIS3130: :Crimson: :4D310: :Onyx2: :O2000: :O200: :PI: :Fuel: :Indigo: :Octane: :O2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2: :Indy: :1600SW: :320: :pdp8e:
:BA213: <- MicroVAX 3500 :BA213: <- DECsystem 5500 :BA215: <- MicroVAX 3300
Pictures of my collection: www.pdp8.se

tingo
Donor
Donor
Posts: 319
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:40 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: "Unlimited Detail" - new rendering technology

Unread postby tingo » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:12 pm

Yeah, show us a real working game for example.
Torfinn

User avatar
SiliconClassics
Posts: 1477
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: "Unlimited Detail" - new rendering technology

Unread postby SiliconClassics » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:01 am

Hmm.. more grandiose claims backed by zero technical information. The creator of Minecraft has weighed in here, giving their claims a thumbs-down.
Silicon Classics on: YouTube | Twitter | Google+

User avatar
GeneratriX
Posts: 4250
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:07 am
Location: Rosario / Santa Fe / República Argentina

Re: "Unlimited Detail" - new rendering technology

Unread postby GeneratriX » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:26 pm

Even if it is just a highly optimized implementation from some derivative SVO (Sparse Voxel Octree) graphics algorithm, and if we assume it is not a hoax, then it would be cool for some complex Virtual Scenarios / Virtual Worlds.

Of course, the maths behind it looks like impossible for anything else than a highly repetitive use for a few basic models into scene.

Stoo
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:13 am

Re: "Unlimited Detail" - new rendering technology

Unread postby Stoo » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:50 pm

There's another video here answering a few of the claims made by Notch etc:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVB1ayT6Fdc

Oddly enough they aren't looking for funding or anything else, they're perfectly content to go do their thing and release it when they're happy.

I guess we'll find out in another year or so :)
:Octane2: Octane2 Dual R14K 600Mhz, 4GB RAM, VPro V12, DCD, PCI Card Cage, GBit Ethernet
:Indigo2IMP: Indigo2 R10K 195MHz, 1GB RAM, Maximum Impact, I2V
The boxen are breeding... help!

User avatar
SiliconClassics
Posts: 1477
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: "Unlimited Detail" - new rendering technology

Unread postby SiliconClassics » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:50 pm

Interesting - the latest video certainly adds a lot of legitimacy to their claims. Looks like they've definitely got an actual, unique, innovative product.

However, you may have noticed that the "island" environment in the video made generous use of instantiation - there was a lot of repeated geometry, in fact it looked as though there were only a few unique tiles of land that they combined to create the larger world environment. This makes sense when you consider that volumetric graphics primitives take lots and lots of memory since they're basically three-dimensional bitmap images. To store enough unique voxels to create the entire island would probably require terabytes of RAM, which is impossible on contemporary PC systems, and to run their proprietary "pixel search" graphics algorithm on a terabyte-sized database stored on disk would take forever. Hence, they store and load a reasonable amount of unique graphics data, and then repeat it ad nauseam to make the environment look large. So, the graphics detail is "unlimited" only in the sense that their system can draw environments of arbitrarily large size, as long as these environments are composed of a limited number of unique models.

For all practical purposes, this means that any developer using this engine must resort to a "tiled" approach to environment construction (not unlike Minecraft). This basically means that they will need some talented artists to build a small but versatile set of repeatable geometic primitives that can be instantiated and combined to create convincing world maps. For some games, this will not be a problem. The Sims, as mentioned in the video, comes to mind since by nature it lends itself to a tile-based graphics system. But for large outdoor FPS games like Crysis, it might make more sense to stick with polygons, or perhaps an engine that combines polygons and voxels for maximum efficiency. Ex: use polygons to create a large non-repeating ground surface, then detail it with instantiated voxel rocks and plants.

Despite this limitation of their "unlimited" technology, I'd still invest in their company. They really do deserve accolades for what they've accomplished. I'll bet a dual-600MHz Octane with enough RAM could probably do a decent job running their engine.
Silicon Classics on: YouTube | Twitter | Google+

Pontus
Posts: 695
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 12:12 pm
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

Re: "Unlimited Detail" - new rendering technology

Unread postby Pontus » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:46 am

ajerimez wrote:I'll bet a dual-600MHz Octane with enough RAM could probably do a decent job running their engine.


What on earth are you basing that on? Have they said anything about the hardware they use?
:Onyx2R: :IRIS3130: :Crimson: :4D310: :Onyx2: :O2000: :O200: :PI: :Fuel: :Indigo: :Octane: :O2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2: :Indy: :1600SW: :320: :pdp8e:
:BA213: <- MicroVAX 3500 :BA213: <- DECsystem 5500 :BA215: <- MicroVAX 3300
Pictures of my collection: www.pdp8.se

User avatar
nekonoko
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 8145
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:31 am
Location: Pleasanton, California
Contact:

Re: "Unlimited Detail" - new rendering technology

Unread postby nekonoko » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:30 am

Pontus wrote:What on earth are you basing that on? Have they said anything about the hardware they use?


In the latest video they run an interactive version on an Asus laptop (i7 based). He stated it was running on a single core with no GPU assist.
Twitter: @neko_no_ko
IRIX Release 4.0.5 IP12 Version 06151813 System V
Copyright 1987-1992 Silicon Graphics, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.


Return to “SGI: Computer Graphics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests