particle clipping on ocean surface in Maya

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Vladio
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particle clipping on ocean surface in Maya

Unread postby Vladio » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:41 pm

I've been playing around with a little side project and have hit a minor roadblock, so to speak. I have an emitter emitting blob particles onto an ocean surface in Maya 2013 that are getting clipped out on the higher parts of the ocean. Take a look at the pic. I've posted this on a couple maya forums but it seems like no one replies on them anymore so I figured I'd check in here. As always, I appreciate any input you can offer. Thanks in advance!


Image

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Last edited by Vladio on Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: particle clipping on ocean surface in Maya

Unread postby recondas » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:58 am

Even if it is currently missing on my end 'cause I'm blocking javascript and those persistent tracking cookies that photo hosting sites inject into your system so they can turn a buck selling your browsing history, browse through the some of the older forum threads. Eventually most off-site hosted photos go MIA, and it leaves the next person looking for info or help hanging in the proverbial breeze.....
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Re: particle clipping on ocean surface in Maya

Unread postby foetz » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:14 am

doesn't show for me either. but yesterday it did. no javascript and alike both times

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Re: particle clipping on ocean surface in Maya

Unread postby smj » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:38 pm

I followed the link and started temporarily enabling Javascript from the cryptically named domains, and it eventually came up with the same message - I think the image really was deleted vs. any browser-related failure. (The point about hosted images still stands, of course.)
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Re: particle clipping on ocean surface in Maya

Unread postby Vladio » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:05 pm

Sorry for any problems or stress! ;) The image dropped into a library that had a bunch of other stuff that I didn't want "out there" so I moved it. I figured it would kill the link but I tried it and it was still there. Might of been cached though. Again, my apologies.

On my end I'll leave that image there for anyone that comes across this issue in the future. I agree it sucks when these images disappear - I'll do my best to keep it available going forward.

Thanks again, fella's.
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Re: particle clipping on ocean surface in Maya

Unread postby hazelden » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:08 pm

Vladio wrote:I've been playing around with a little side project and have hit a minor roadblock, so to speak. I have an emitter emitting blob particles onto an ocean surface in Maya 2013 that are getting clipped out on the higher parts of the ocean.


Here are a few ideas off the top of my head:

  • You could try setting up a few render layers and render the particles separately from the ocean surface and composite them in After Effects. On the blobby particle render layer, a black hole matte could be used to punch out the outline of the boat hull from the particles.
  • Another option would be to try and increase the tessellation on the ocean surface for a more accurate wave boundary.
  • A final option would be to look at the $99 copy of Realflow learning edition and switch to a Realwave ocean surface and Realflow emitted spray that is rendered in Maya.
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Re: particle clipping on ocean surface in Maya

Unread postby hamei » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:46 pm

Vladio wrote: I'll do my best to keep it available going forward.

It's actually easier than photosloppit :

Directly below the text editing window is a button labeled "Browse ..."

Click that.

It will open a new popup file travesty window. Navigate your hard drive then double click the image name.

A new popup does, graphically showing the upload.

Then again, directly below the "Browse ..." button is another, "Add the file"

Click that and Bob's yer uncle, done.

I like to also click "Place Inline" because that way you can set the image where you want it in the text, but it's not necessary if you're really rushed for time.
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Re: particle clipping on ocean surface in Maya

Unread postby vishnu » Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:16 pm

Should be pretty easy to do with Apply Fluid Effects -> Ocean -> Create Wake...
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Re: particle clipping on ocean surface in Maya

Unread postby hamei » Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:57 pm

Vladio wrote: As always, I appreciate any input you can offer.

No idea why it showed up here today, normally I have photobucket blocked.

wake.jpg

Anyway, if anything, Maya is doing you a favor. Your wake doesn't much resemble the real thing. By clipping off your particles in the middle it looks closer to the way a bow wave actually appears.

Look at some photos of a real sailboat. A wake is actually a v-shaped wave, centered on the bow. At the top of this wave is froth, visually extending in a v shape back from the point of entry. Behind the crest of this wave is a trough. A water-colored trough, with no froth or foam. Then farther behind that there will be another crest extending outward in a v shape, but also without any foam or froth. The distance for this secondary wake aft of the bow will depend on the boat length and the speed. Then at the very rear of the boat where the ass end of the hull meets the stern, there will be another small crest as the flow along the side meets the disturbed water coming up from under the boat. In power boats you will see foam or a froth here, generally in sail boats only bubbles and disturbed water. Some vortexes.

If you want it to look correct, you first need to work on the physics of solid objects moving through a fluid ....

Your shadows are doing a very odd thing as well, by the way. Is this a planet with two suns ?

Real wakes :

wake_one.jpg

wake_two.jpg

wake_three.jpg

Is he waving or flipping us off ? :P
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Re: particle clipping on ocean surface in Maya

Unread postby vishnu » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:22 pm

Not to go totally off-topic but speaking of sailing I've been following the Savanah Sails blog for a couple of years, a family of three who set off from San Diego in 2010 in a 40 foot catamaran to sail around the world, How they're doing it is a mystery for the ages, I work full time and still have a hard time staying solvent until my next paycheck...
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Re: particle clipping on ocean surface in Maya

Unread postby hamei » Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:06 pm

vishnu wrote:Not to go totally off-topic

Not off-topic, we be talking wakes ... (cue dead march from Saul ...)

but speaking of sailing I've been following Savanah Sails for a couple of years ... How they're doing it is a mystery for the ages, I work full time and still have a hard time staying solvent until my next paycheck...

Not a mystery. Priorities, d00d. Dey be havin' a life, you be slavin' foh da Man. Lift dat bale, pope dat barge ....


Our ship came in, noticed it had a nice shot of the wake on a larger vessel. Bow wave, trough right behind, secondary bow wave, the run alongside the hull (non-laminar flow) followed by the stern wake, all three paths of foam/bubbles are clearly visible ...
maag ´¬.jpg
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Re: particle clipping on ocean surface in Maya

Unread postby foetz » Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:32 pm

i'd give the particles a separate pass and do the rest in post. they're too fine grained anyway
Last edited by foetz on Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: particle clipping on ocean surface in Maya

Unread postby guardian452 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:21 am

I spent a summer on a sailboat. About the same size (maybe a bit smaller?) than the aegean in hamei's post... no comments about the wake. I recall it took longer than normal before I was walking normally on solid ground again ;)

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Re: particle clipping on ocean surface in Maya

Unread postby vishnu » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:51 pm

You guys and your life experiences! I once went to Arizona to look in a hole... :lol:

Bow wake wise this is interesting.
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Re: particle clipping on ocean surface in Maya

Unread postby Vladio » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:31 pm

hamei wrote:Anyway, if anything, Maya is doing you a favor. Your wake doesn't much resemble the real thing. By clipping off your particles in the middle it looks closer to the way a bow wave actually appears.

Look at some photos of a real sailboat. A wake is actually a v-shaped wave, centered on the bow. At the top of this wave is froth, visually extending in a v shape back from the point of entry. Behind the crest of this wave is a trough. A water-colored trough, with no froth or foam. Then farther behind that there will be another crest extending outward in a v shape, but also without any foam or froth. The distance for this secondary wake aft of the bow will depend on the boat length and the speed. Then at the very rear of the boat where the ass end of the hull meets the stern, there will be another small crest as the flow along the side meets the disturbed water coming up from under the boat. In power boats you will see foam or a froth here, generally in sail boats only bubbles and disturbed water. Some vortexes.

If you want it to look correct, you first need to work on the physics of solid objects moving through a fluid ....

Your shadows are doing a very odd thing as well, by the way. Is this a planet with two suns ?


To be fair, you are just seeing a small part but I would agree the lack of realism. Although I've yet to see a realistic wake that's true to your pics using a couple emitters in Maya - I've seen a lot that look good but lack the secondary nuances and realism of real-life.

As the splash coming off the bow is a half second part of the animation and it's just something I'm playing around with, I see no reason to spend the time redoing the wake in RealFlow to achieve an honest representation of what you pictured. But thank you none the less.

I did use maya's wake emitter on the rear of the ship but, again, it lacks the realism of real flow. It's fine for this though.

My question was why some particles were not showing and I think we got off topic a bit.

As far as the lighting, again, you aren't seeing the whole thing. Not sure what "two suns" you're seeing but there's one directional light that's casting a ray-traced shadow. Unless MentalRay has gone bonkers you're seeing a true shadow. As I'm looking at the video I have no idea what you're talking about. :)
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