Introducing myself - although I don't have any SGI machines yet

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Re: Introducing myself - although I don't have any SGI machines yet

Unread postby fu » Mon May 09, 2016 10:54 am

oh! a TURBO golden badge!

ivelegacy wrote:I contacted the seller because a friend of mine happened to have 2500 euro in his budget (+ shipping, 700 euro)
and he wanted to buy a Tezro (for video editing purposes, he worked for MTV, a lot of years ago, nostalgia, he said)
the seller replied that his price is partially justified by the license in his name
and that's all about the gossip that I can offer :D

if you’re friend is in this business (= he makes a living by cutting clips) there’s no way he’d pay such price. also the comparative metaphor of the original price (for a licence of software or hardware) says nothing for computers.

no one buys them for editing or any real work, it’s all a hobby trying to figure out where all the i/o is supposed to go since most people don’t have access to the rest of the equipment to make use of a total acquisition system.

when a tv station scraps/renews a studio/location/vans, it's quite common for stuff like this to hit ebay for a while, most of the time they get transferred somewhere else locally though

Shiunbird wrote:So what would be the SGI for me?
I guess processor speed won't be the most important thing compared to RAM or a snappy hard drive.

pretty much what the guys said, get whatever you can find near you for starters and the rest will follow sooner or later :)

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Re: Introducing myself - although I don't have any SGI machines yet

Unread postby japes » Mon May 09, 2016 11:55 am

Welcome! Great to see another AIX fan. I am a Sun/SGI fan first - Sun because that was the first UNIX I had exposure to. SGI because pretty cases and graphics back when I had zero hope of having one. IBM/AIX more recently after adminning some Power6 and Power7 systems in a previous job for a while. Long ago I had a RS/6000 Powerstation 530, but didn't know what to do with it. I only had the install it came to me with and no media or other software for it. I eventually ended up just throwing it away. In my renewed AIX interest I picked up a couple more modern systems p5 505 (single core) and p6 520 (quad core, 4.2 MHz I think). I haven't had much time to spend with them yet. I keep holding a RS/6000 B50 for some reason.

Shiunbird wrote:So what would be the SGI for me?


Guess that depends on what you want to do.

Just muck about the OS? Probably anything. If you want an old release you'll need to find an older machine. Indigo/Indy/Indigo2 systems are nice for this. I am just beginning to explore IRIX 5.3, mostly I've had systems running 6.5.22 or newer. The R3000 Indigo can run IRIX 4.0.5 through 5.3. The R4000 and newer Indigo family systems can run 6.5.22 max, but will be slower with their old slow SCSI busses. Top of the range systems with plenty of memory aren't bad though. I really enjoy my 180 MHz Indy and Challenge S systems.

O2 and Octane systems are the next generation and will run the newest OS release, 6.5.30. How far back they can go depends on options. O2s can run IRIX 6.2, not sure if an Octane can run anything older than 6.5. Octanes are scaled back Origin 200/Origin 2000/Onyx2 systems and are great systems for any use.

I saw an endorsement for O2. I would stay clear of R5000 180 MHz or 200 MHz systems. My R10k 195 MHz system gave me a new appreciation for the O2 after the R5k systems spoiled it for me. Of all the systems they seem pretty touchy though and plastics are going to be an issue. R5k systems do accept two hard drives instead of one that R10k/R12k systems are limited to.

If you can find one nearby the Octane/Octane2 are nice systems - but terribly heavy if you have to ship far. I like the dual systems, even slower ones like 195 or 250 MHz - for some reason they get an extra snappiness that the singles don't have even just mucking about the OS which ought to be mostly a single thread. I saw some dual CPU modules on ebay for reasonable amounts so a slow Octane could be upgraded easily.

Fuel and Tezro are the latest generation of SGI's IRIX workstations and share their platform with other IP 35 systems such as Origin and Onyx 300/350/3000. Being a single CPU isn't a complaint I have with the Fuel oddly enough - but it has faster memory, faster SCSI. They don't have sound out of the box but have some PCI slots you can add SAS, SCSI, FC, Sound, Gigabit ethernet options to. I have really started to enjoy the IP35 systems (Fuel, Tezro, Origin and Onyx 300/350/3000). They do take some special care and feeding now that some of the internal batteries are dying...a L2 controller is a good investment if your collection grows far into the IP35 territory.
:O3000: :Fuel: :Tezro: :Tezro: :Octane2: :Octane: :Octane: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Indigo: :O2: :1600SW: :O2: :1600SW: :1600SW: :Indigo2: :Indigo2: :Indigo2: :Indigo2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :O3x0: :O3x02L: :O3x02L:

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Re: Introducing myself - although I don't have any SGI machines yet

Unread postby Trippynet » Mon May 09, 2016 1:27 pm

japes wrote:I saw an endorsement for O2. I would stay clear of R5000 180 MHz or 200 MHz systems. My R10k 195 MHz system gave me a new appreciation for the O2 after the R5k systems spoiled it for me. Of all the systems they seem pretty touchy though and plastics are going to be an issue. R5k systems do accept two hard drives instead of one that R10k/R12k systems are limited to.


It all depends what you compare them to. My first O2 was an R5000 200MHz system. Not a great O2, but it was comfortably faster than my previous SGI (a 133MHz R4600 Indy). Hence, I actually have fond memories of it as it was a noticeable upgrade from what I had. And of course it takes the more common 80 pin disks without any adapters being required and has VGA out.

Of course, my R10000 Indigo2 utterly trumps it for responsiveness (one of the reasons my O2 is now in storage), but back in the early 2000s when I picked up my O2 (for free), I didn't have the Indigo2.

I'd say if you do go for an O2 to go for either an R10k/R12k one, or a 300MHz+ R5200 one. That way the drawbacks in the architecture are less evident. An Octane will still easily trump it for performance, but then they're larger, more expensive, noisier and a lot more power hungry too. Hence, it's about buying the right machine for the job really. O2s can be both an ideal system, and a rubbish one depending on the spec and what you intend to use it for.
Systems in use:
:Indigo2IMP: - Nitrogen: R10000 195MHz CPU, 384MB RAM, SolidIMPACT Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 100Mb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.22
:Fuel: - Lithium: R14000 600MHz CPU, 4GB RAM, V10 Graphics, 72GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 1Gb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.30
Other system in storage: :O2: R5000 200MHz, 224MB RAM, 72GB 15k HDD, PSU fan mod, IRIX 6.5.30

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Re: Introducing myself - although I don't have any SGI machines yet

Unread postby japes » Mon May 09, 2016 4:27 pm

Excellent points - VGA is a really nice plus. I'd already had a R10k Indigo2, wish I'd had room for it when the friend I gave it to didn't want it anymore.

I have problems with ram on my O2s, not sure if I just have a number of bad sticks or dirty sockets, or what. And larger pieces are becoming harder or more expensive to find. Just one of the reasons I think of them as being touchy. They mate well with SW1600 displays if you get the flat panel adapter.
:O3000: :Fuel: :Tezro: :Tezro: :Octane2: :Octane: :Octane: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Indigo: :O2: :1600SW: :O2: :1600SW: :1600SW: :Indigo2: :Indigo2: :Indigo2: :Indigo2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :O3x0: :O3x02L: :O3x02L:

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Re: Introducing myself - although I don't have any SGI machines yet

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Mon May 09, 2016 6:50 pm

I like the Fool, and it's the SGI I use the most, but they can be touchy.

Thank you for the browser. =)


*tips hat
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

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Re: Introducing myself - although I don't have any SGI machines yet

Unread postby Shiunbird » Tue May 10, 2016 2:41 am

Oh wow, you guys are so helpful. Can I cry every time now? =)

Let me just clarify one thing

ive legacy wrote:
for linux? two good options

O2 R5K (forget R10K/R12K)
Octane2 (experimental)


since I'm not sure I was clear. I definitely don't intend to run Linux on it. I don't really use Linux, just as a tool. My relationship with Linux is like:
1. Need something.
2. Launch a VM, configure the thing.
3. Document the details, since I will fatally have to do it again one day.
4. Hand it over to the support team and never look at it again.
The same thing at home, it's just I am the support team. =)
Or when I need to run something very specific. Although I'd rather use it than Windows.

On that Tezro:
I guess the seller doesn't really want to sell it, and he will do only if he can fetch that insane money for it. Otherwise he will keep it. =)
I'm not getting it. It's far above my budget and yes, it would kill the fun of going through the process of learning about it and building the system, breaking my head and etc..

Delivery fees are crazy. I got my IntelliStation from the Netherlands and paid 200 euro for delivery. When the delivery truck arrived, they just unloaded the pallet and left it at the sidewalk. I called 3 colleagues to help me bring it in and left it at our cafeteria. Thirty minutes later, our office manager comes in and "Saulo, WHAT IS THAT?". Needless to say, I had to bring it home the same day and carry it by stairs to the fourth floor. My building doesn't have a lift.

tl;dr: I'm looking for something in Europe. I always check the German eBay and get most of my things from there. Sometimes from the UK. If you guys find anything costing not more than 300 euro (excluding delivery fees), I'm considering it.

My goal is to live out of it for a week, do my things and see if I would survive. =)

So in short, I would be looking for something that could potentially run the latest IRIX and have VGA-out (I don't have room for another monitor at the moment, and I'm not the biggest fan of adapters). 1GB or more of RAM would be nice.

@japes: Would love to share the experience with AIX. All I managed to get running was GIMP, Thunderbird and Firefox. And then if I try to expand what I run I get library conflicts and end up breaking one thing or another. Kerberos works, NFS works, text-mode stuff runs ok naturally. I got an audio card for it but couldn't get any use of it in AIX. I've got the Quake 2 demo and might go for a newer graphics card just for it.

And my last question: What would be the value of going for older versions of IRIX? What has to be learned from the experiment? I was initially aiming to go for the latest release and revision if possible. But if there are fun things to be learned from the previous versions, I'm in for that as well.

@ivelegacy:
I've had Google for Paola & Chiara. Musical clips are funny. One of the ladies is singing in a bus and hey... who does that really?

Once I have a machine, I will post all the porn and share the joy and the pain with you.
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Re: Introducing myself - although I don't have any SGI machines yet

Unread postby foetz » Tue May 10, 2016 3:18 am

Shiunbird wrote:What would be the value of going for older versions of IRIX? What has to be learned from the experiment?

that depends on your goals. for example:

- if you have an older machine, older versions are lighter and faster.
- if you wanna learn programming. doing stuff with the native compilers on a "real" unix is much less forgiving than e.g. linux/x86/gcc hence you have to do things properly. the older the unix and the compilers the less "help" you get.
- if you wanna learn unix. older unix versions are less dummy friendly hence you have to do stuff closer to the core if you know what i mean.

however, keep in mind that proprietary systems like the mips line from sgi are strict. only specific versions of a specific os release works on certain machines. you can't swap os versions at will.

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Re: Introducing myself - although I don't have any SGI machines yet

Unread postby uunix » Tue May 10, 2016 3:30 am

Shiunbird wrote:Oh wow, you guys are so helpful. Can I cry every time now? =)

Let me just clarify one thing

ive legacy wrote:
for linux? two good options

O2 R5K (forget R10K/R12K)
Octane2 (experimental)


since I'm not sure I was clear. I definitely don't intend to run Linux on it. I don't really use Linux, just as a tool. My relationship with Linux is like:
1. Need something.
2. Launch a VM, configure the thing.
3. Document the details, since I will fatally have to do it again one day.
4. Hand it over to the support team and never look at it again.
The same thing at home, it's just I am the support team. =)
Or when I need to run something very specific. Although I'd rather use it than Windows.

I do like that...

With myself it's..
"Ooooh I have a spare machine.. I must try Loonix..
Download an image.... oooh look a squirrel in the garden..
... Now, what was I doing.. ah yes some [FILL THIS WITH SOMETHING OTHER THAN LOONIX]"

Shiunbird wrote:On that Tezro:
I guess the seller doesn't really want to sell it, and he will do only if he can fetch that insane money for it. Otherwise he will keep it. =)
I'm not getting it. It's far above my budget and yes, it would kill the fun of going through the process of learning about it and building the system, breaking my head and etc..

I wouldn't say it was insane money to be honest, the dirty mouse mat going for £200 was insane.

Shiunbird wrote:tl;dr: I'm looking for something in Europe. I always check the German eBay and get most of my things from there. Sometimes from the UK. If you guys find anything costing not more than 300 euro (excluding delivery fees), I'm considering it.

I'd see what Ian Mapleson has or tjsgifan.

Shiunbird wrote:And my last question: What would be the value of going for older versions of IRIX? What has to be learned from the experiment? I was initially aiming to go for the latest release and revision if possible. But if there are fun things to be learned from the previous versions, I'm in for that as well.

The value would be, living all those years you missed.
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Re: Introducing myself - although I don't have any SGI machines yet

Unread postby jan-jaap » Tue May 10, 2016 3:33 am

SGI was usually selling two lines of IRIX workstations at any given time: one "entry level" and one "advanced" workstation.
Advanced line: Indigo2 -> Octane -> Tezro.
Entry line: Indy -> O2 -> Fuel.

This is a *very* simplified picture. Plz people there's no need to explain the unique features of the O2 again ;)

300 bucks is not going to buy you a Tezro. With a good bit of patience it might buy you an entry level Fuel. It will buy you an Octane or an O2. The Octane gives more performance per euro, allows for dual CPUs, more memory and much better 3D graphics performance. It runs 64bit IRIX instead of 32bit. A CPU of any speed will perform better in an Octane than the same CPU in an O2 because the system architecture is much better.

Look up Ian Mapleson's site, sgidepot.co.uk because he has lots of information. He can also give you advise and/or sell you one. But Octanes are heavy and shipping anything out of the UK is horribly expensive.

There's not much on eBay.de as far as Octanes are concerned right now. There's one on eBay.co.uk from a fellow from Greece who I believe also offered the same gear for sale here. At least it's more or less in the right region of Europe, and he seems to know how to ship heavy items since the ad mentions a crate.

No IRIX system is going to provide much in terms of web browsing. The newest Firefox is v3.x and AFAIK there's no javascript byte compiler / VM so if it works at all it's going to be slow. That said, 100-150 bucks should be able to buy you an Indigo2 R10000. Less CPU speed (~200MHz), lower memory limits, slower network, but it runs IRIX itself (and applications from the 2nd half of the nineties) surprisingly well. You can run IRIX 6.2 on them, dress them up with a bit of GNU software from 'tgcware' to make it a bit more familiar. They're also cheaper to ship because they weigh less.

I would avoid anything that doesn't have at least an R10000 CPU.
:PI: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Indigo2: :Indigo2: :Indigo2IMP: :Octane: :Octane2: :O2: :O2+: Image :Fuel: :Tezro: :4D70G: :Skywriter: :PWRSeries: :Crimson: :ChallengeL: :Onyx: :O200: :Onyx2: :O3x02L:
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Re: Introducing myself - although I don't have any SGI machines yet

Unread postby uunix » Tue May 10, 2016 4:24 am

ivelegacy wrote:
  • Indy … sold out


And the purpose of listing the Indy that you don't have? Tease!!
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Re: Introducing myself - although I don't have any SGI machines yet

Unread postby uunix » Tue May 10, 2016 4:55 am

ivelegacy wrote:
uunix wrote:And the purpose of listing the Indy that you don't have? Tease!!

because I still have a few spare parts, and secretly I hope to assemble them into a complete machine :D
.. well, even if, about plastics, I hope ... less *goofy* than the last "black on the top" :lol:

Ah, I see your angle Mr Legacy.. I have for sale the case from an Indy.. please add your own special effects..

hummmmm.. bzz.. blink blink... bzzzzz
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Re: Introducing myself - although I don't have any SGI machines yet

Unread postby Jack Luminous » Tue May 10, 2016 4:58 am

I have an 400 mHz O2 and I think it's damn slow. Try to find a dual 600 Octane 2. It's a great machine, really powerful enough for trying out all the great softwares. Really fun to play with ! I use the O2 almost solely as a X terminal for logging onto the Octane 2 from another part of the house (Octane is in the basement). Another thing, the O2 is not capable of playing videos (with the current available set of video-related apps). The Octane 2 plays movies great. 8-)
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Re: Introducing myself - although I don't have any SGI machines yet

Unread postby Shiunbird » Tue May 10, 2016 6:20 am

ivelegacy wrote:those are my special effects :D :D :D

That sounds awesome! Do you have a picture of that?

I've just browsed Ian's SGI Depot, there's plenty of information there.
He has a huge collection!

What do you think about this:

Code: Select all

36   R12000     1    400  2MB   1024    2    36GB/15K     V6   V1.4   Newer    375   [Octane2, blue]

That's 375 GBP.

And now I realize that machines are not that expensive there. The displays are also reasonably priced as well. He offers even SGI cameras, I had no idea they existed.
I paid 300 euro for my IntelliStation 285 new in the box, but most of the ones I see online cost around 1000 euro used. I guess I just got lucky. I was looking for it for more than a year checking eBay everyday.

I'm attending a wedding in Cambridge in July. I guess if I decide on getting something, I could just drive there instead of flying. The offered shipping costs to continental Europe are very reasonable as well. He seems to know what he is doing. Moreover, I would get all the software kit to use the machine if I end up getting tired of playing around.

This surprised me, though:

Code: Select all

 1    Ian's PC #2   1      4     i7 2700K    5000     8MB        8      Win7    00:00:13:09
 2    Ian's PC #1   1      4     i7 870      4270     8MB        8      Win7    00:00:18.98
 3    Dell T7500    1      4     X5570       2930     8MB        8      Win7    00:00:25.71
 4    Onyx300       8      1     R14000       600     4MB        8     6.5.30   00:00:49:66
 5    Tezro         4      1     R16000      1000    16MB        8     6.5.26   00:00:58.71

From: http://sgidepot.co.uk/perfcomp_RENDER1_blender.html

His PC with 4 cores @ 5GHz and much faster I/O and memory subsystems is only ~4x faster than his Tezro.
I'd honestly expect a bigger improvement in performance.
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Re: Introducing myself - although I don't have any SGI machines yet

Unread postby jan-jaap » Tue May 10, 2016 7:54 am

Shiunbird wrote:This surprised me, though:

Code: Select all

 1    Ian's PC #2   1      4     i7 2700K    5000     8MB        8      Win7    00:00:13:09
 2    Ian's PC #1   1      4     i7 870      4270     8MB        8      Win7    00:00:18.98
 3    Dell T7500    1      4     X5570       2930     8MB        8      Win7    00:00:25.71
 4    Onyx300       8      1     R14000       600     4MB        8     6.5.30   00:00:49:66
 5    Tezro         4      1     R16000      1000    16MB        8     6.5.26   00:00:58.71

From: http://sgidepot.co.uk/perfcomp_RENDER1_blender.html

His PC with 4 cores @ 5GHz and much faster I/O and memory subsystems is only ~4x faster than his Tezro.
I'd honestly expect a bigger improvement in performance.


Well, I gave it a quick spin on my O350 (8x 700MHz R16000), and got a time of 43:75 using 8 threads and 16x16 tiles:
blenderbench.png

Mind you, that system is not optimized for benchmarks, it's a compile/file server so there's usually other things happening ;)

I've got an HP Z600 with dual X5660 Xeons at home, maybe I'll give that a try sometime. That's 12 cores + HT and a whole lot of much faster memory. I'd be surprised if that didn't beat his PC times considerably, and that's a 4 (?) year old system, hardly a state of the art number cruncher. The current equivalent (HP Z640) can be ordered with dual Xeon E5-2699 v4 CPUs, with 22 cores each....
:PI: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Indigo2: :Indigo2: :Indigo2IMP: :Octane: :Octane2: :O2: :O2+: Image :Fuel: :Tezro: :4D70G: :Skywriter: :PWRSeries: :Crimson: :ChallengeL: :Onyx: :O200: :Onyx2: :O3x02L:
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Re: Introducing myself - although I don't have any SGI machines yet

Unread postby Krokodil » Tue May 10, 2016 12:27 pm

Shiunbird wrote:
ivelegacy wrote:those are my special effects :D :D :D

That sounds awesome! Do you have a picture of that?

I've just browsed Ian's SGI Depot, there's plenty of information there.
He has a huge collection!


Ian has some pretty good stuff. He packages his stuff well too.

Octane 1 can play movies pretty well too, with EMXI. Just the video has to be converted to suit it, that's the only annoyance.
:Octane2: - :O2: - :Octane: - :Indigo2IMP:


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