New guy, just bought a Fuel

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hamei
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Re: New guy, just bought a Fuel

Unread postby hamei » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:54 am

sornywrx wrote:That's correct, didn't even get to inst> prompt. Right before it should've loaded, after the CD is read and the tools are copied to the HD, it fails with that error message.

I've been here ... the more skillful members of nekochan will barf when they hear this but I've seldom been able to escape a truly bad install. No idea why but when they go bad for me, they go bad !

The easiest thing to do is hook the disk to an adaptec hba in any intel machine and low-level the entire disk from the adaptec bios. Have done this more than once with good success. For some reason (I don't make the same dumb mistake on the second try ?) it has fixed the problem several times.

Doing this in Irix does not work, it low-levels the entire disk except for the part that's screwed up. Unix is smart !
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Re: New guy, just bought a Fuel

Unread postby sornywrx » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:00 am

It sounds like you have the luck I have.... I always run into the weirdest most unusual problems. I should've known that there's no way IRIX would've installed perfectly, by the boot. On the positive side I've already learned a LOT more than I knew before about IRIX and SGI :)

Good call on the low level format... I was going to do it from the fx tool on the IRIX CD but wasn't sure if I should. This drive wasn't brand new and was used in a Windows system for a while. I do have a SCSI controller somewhere that I can throw in a desktop and low level format this drive.

I wish I had spare memory, CD-ROM, and HD but I don't have any SCSI stuff laying around anymore except this one drive, so I can't test by swapping hardware. The Fuel DOES have that 2nd SCSI card in it so I might try putting the HD on that other card to rule out the onboard SCSI as having issues but I'd think the onboard SCSI would be the least likely problem.

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Re: New guy, just bought a Fuel

Unread postby foetz » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:23 am

just to rule that one out since you didn't answer it: you have to boot with the first cd of 6.5.22 or 6.5.30. using the foundation's "boot" cd will not work on a fuel.

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Re: New guy, just bought a Fuel

Unread postby sornywrx » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:26 am

foetz wrote:just to rule that one out since you didn't answer it: you have to boot with the first cd of 6.5.22 or 6.5.30. using the foundation's "boot" cd will not work on a fuel.


Yup, confirmed. I had tried to boot with Foundation 1 (just to test) and it wouldn't boot anyways.

I was using what was labeled as Overlay CD1. The same CD that let me boot it and run fx (so fx is on there) and when I try to load the installation tools to the HD partition (right before booting inst> prompt) it reads that CD and copies data. So I'm pretty sure it's the correct CD. I stuck the foundation CD1 in there and tried to do the "Install System Software" where it copies the tools and it reported that it was the wrong CD and wouldn't even try to copy it.

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Re: New guy, just bought a Fuel

Unread postby hamei » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:11 am

sornywrx wrote:I was using what was labeled as Overlay CD1.

This is a little worrisome but because they are homemade, we can't tell. The real SGI CD #1 is labelled "Installation Tools and Overlay 1" .... do the overlay CD's have a crippled installation setup on them ?

But you've got all the other CD's you should have, so seems like it's not just the overlays setup ... :roll:

That's why I asked if they came from the SGI download, cuz a lot of people think those are the full system. But they aren't.
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Re: New guy, just bought a Fuel

Unread postby sornywrx » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:13 am

Yes I really don't trust these ISOs. I'd gladly buy the original media if there was an option besides eBay where people are asking more than what I paid for the Fuel for the CDs.

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Re: New guy, just bought a Fuel

Unread postby duck » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:53 am

sornywrx wrote:The error mentions controller 0, disk 1 and that's what the partition program shows so it seems to be pointing to the correct thing. Also, when I ran boot -f I replaced dksc(1,6,x) with cdrom(1,6,x) and both worked (as far as loading the partitioning tool but both ways gives me the same error in the screenshot above.


Did you try to run the installer again after resetenv? It looks to me like it's got some weird path set in the prom (you can think of /hw like /proc on linux, it's a virtual file tree of all the installed devices, but only available in a running system, it would make zero sense in the prom) where it would expect a dksc-style disk id.
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Re: New guy, just bought a Fuel

Unread postby sornywrx » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:56 am

duck wrote:
sornywrx wrote:The error mentions controller 0, disk 1 and that's what the partition program shows so it seems to be pointing to the correct thing. Also, when I ran boot -f I replaced dksc(1,6,x) with cdrom(1,6,x) and both worked (as far as loading the partitioning tool but both ways gives me the same error in the screenshot above.


Did you try to run the installer again after resetenv? It looks to me like it's got some weird path set in the prom (you can think of /hw like /proc on linux, it's a virtual file tree of all the installed devices, but only available in a running system, it would make zero sense in the prom) where it would expect a dksc-style disk id.


Sure did. Reset it and tried again (twice actually).. no dice.

I was just reading about using debian as a sftp server for the media... thought about spinning up a Debian VM and mounting my ISOs there and ruling out the CD-ROM drive. The files on the miniroot partition, after being copied by the CD, look to be corrupted and unreadable so I'm thinking it's something happening in the data transfer portion. :/

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Re: New guy, just bought a Fuel

Unread postby JohnK » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:26 am

I had a weird issue with my Fuel though it was somewhat different. I could not install miniroot to the disk once I booted it up from the Installation and Tools Overlay CD. It just kept failing even though the drive tested ok. Drove me nuts until I pinpointed that the problem was either the onboard HBA or the SCSI cable which I tried to re-seat many times over. I even tried a different active terminator on the cable thinking that's what it was but it wasn't. So I purchased another cable (thanks Doug) and that turned out to be the fix. I can only count on one hand the number of bad internal ribbon cables (IDE, SCSI, etc.) that I had come across over the years. I had good reason to suspect it though. The cable that came with the machine looked like it had been crumbled up a few times with creases all over it in every direction. Not good especially for SCSI.
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Re: New guy, just bought a Fuel

Unread postby sornywrx » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:33 am

JohnK wrote:I had a weird issue with my Fuel though it was somewhat different. I could not install miniroot to the disk once I booted it up from the Installation and Tools Overlay CD. It just kept failing even though the drive tested ok. Drove me nuts until I pinpointed that the problem was either the onboard HBA or the SCSI cable which I tried to re-seat many times over. I even tried a different active terminator on the cable thinking that's what it was but it wasn't. So I purchased another cable (thanks Doug) and that turned out to be the fix. I can only count on one hand the number of bad internal ribbon cables (IDE, SCSI, etc.) that I had come across over the years. I had good reason to suspect it though. The cable that came with the machine looked like it had been crumbled up a few times with creases all over it in every direction. Not good especially for SCSI.


That sounds like my problem and I was afraid it was something oddball like the cable or controller. Luckily I have that PCI SCSI card installed so I can at least rule out the onboard HBA but can't rule out the cable. I'll take a look at the cable this evening and see if there's anything obviously wrong with it. I wish I had another drive handy to test so I could rule it out. I may try a low level format on it tonight to see if it comes out ok.

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Re: New guy, just bought a Fuel

Unread postby duck » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:33 am

sornywrx wrote:
duck wrote:Did you try to run the installer again after resetenv? It looks to me like it's got some weird path set in the prom (you can think of /hw like /proc on linux, it's a virtual file tree of all the installed devices, but only available in a running system, it would make zero sense in the prom) where it would expect a dksc-style disk id.


Sure did. Reset it and tried again (twice actually).. no dice.

I was just reading about using debian as a sftp server for the media... thought about spinning up a Debian VM and mounting my ISOs there and ruling out the CD-ROM drive. The files on the miniroot partition, after being copied by the CD, look to be corrupted and unreadable so I'm thinking it's something happening in the data transfer portion. :/


Bummer. It's been so long since I twiddled in the prom that I can't remember half of it anymore... I had a search around and this looks interesting: viewtopic.php?t=15702

Seems like the "Unknown device" can happen for many reasons... if you are able, maybe try to replace the disk? There's also the old nugget "reseat everything".

Fx also has the 'auto' command when launched in expert mode (-x) which will automatically exercise the disk to find bad blocks, map them out and create a standard label. Might be worth trying in case there happened to be bad blocks in just the wrong place.
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Re: New guy, just bought a Fuel

Unread postby sornywrx » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:36 am

duck wrote:
sornywrx wrote:
duck wrote:Did you try to run the installer again after resetenv? It looks to me like it's got some weird path set in the prom (you can think of /hw like /proc on linux, it's a virtual file tree of all the installed devices, but only available in a running system, it would make zero sense in the prom) where it would expect a dksc-style disk id.


Sure did. Reset it and tried again (twice actually).. no dice.

I was just reading about using debian as a sftp server for the media... thought about spinning up a Debian VM and mounting my ISOs there and ruling out the CD-ROM drive. The files on the miniroot partition, after being copied by the CD, look to be corrupted and unreadable so I'm thinking it's something happening in the data transfer portion. :/


Bummer. It's been so long since I twiddled in the prom that I can't remember half of it anymore... I had a search around and this looks interesting: viewtopic.php?t=15702

Seems like the "Unknown device" can happen for many reasons... if you are able, maybe try to replace the disk? There's also the old nugget "reseat everything".

Fx also has the 'auto' command when launched in expert mode (-x) which will automatically exercise the disk to find bad blocks, map them out and create a standard label. Might be worth trying in case there happened to be bad blocks in just the wrong place.



I had read that the disk could be the problem. Replacing the disk may be the next purchase as these SCSI disks (as long as they aren't labeled as SGI) aren't that expensive since I don't need anything bigger than a 36 or 73GB.

I actually launched fx in 'auto' mode last night around midnight so that it could exercise the disk and find bad blocks and all that. As of this morning when I left for work it was still running so I'll have to see how it turned out this evening. Figured it couldn't hurt since I wouldn't be home to work on the machine anyways.

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Re: New guy, just bought a Fuel

Unread postby duck » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:50 am

sornywrx wrote:I had read that the disk could be the problem. Replacing the disk may be the next purchase as these SCSI disks (as long as they aren't labeled as SGI) aren't that expensive since I don't need anything bigger than a 36 or 73GB.

I actually launched fx in 'auto' mode last night around midnight so that it could exercise the disk and find bad blocks and all that. As of this morning when I left for work it was still running so I'll have to see how it turned out this evening. Figured it couldn't hurt since I wouldn't be home to work on the machine anyways.


It seems like you have anticipated my every move, good job :-)
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Re: New guy, just bought a Fuel

Unread postby sornywrx » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:55 am

duck wrote:
sornywrx wrote:I had read that the disk could be the problem. Replacing the disk may be the next purchase as these SCSI disks (as long as they aren't labeled as SGI) aren't that expensive since I don't need anything bigger than a 36 or 73GB.

I actually launched fx in 'auto' mode last night around midnight so that it could exercise the disk and find bad blocks and all that. As of this morning when I left for work it was still running so I'll have to see how it turned out this evening. Figured it couldn't hurt since I wouldn't be home to work on the machine anyways.


It seems like you have anticipated my every move, good job :-)


I've worked in IT long enough (and most of that was onsite support/troubleshooting) so although this is an SGI with an OS I'd never even used before the installation seemed to be one of those oddball things that I had seen before on PCs... files being corrupted while trying to install OS. And then it's either bad drive, cable, controller, memory, motherboard.... well.. pretty much anything but I usually start with disk first as it's most likely bad. Bad media will usually give a media read error and not write jibberish corrupted files to the drive.

Also, once when I was doing an ls on the drive, after it supposedly copied the miniroot to it (which failed) I remember seeing an error that stated something like "cannot read file system" when trying to access certain folders on dksc(0,1,1) and some of the files themselves were just odd characters, not real filenames.

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Re: New guy, just bought a Fuel

Unread postby ajw99uk » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:09 pm

sornywrx wrote:The Fuel DOES have that 2nd SCSI card in it so I might try putting the HD on that other card to rule out the onboard SCSI as having issues but I'd think the onboard SCSI would be the least likely problem.

I didn't think you can boot from PCI-card SCSI, only from the onboard controller, though if the card is a QLA12160 (i.e. same as the onboard one) it might work - given that PROM hinv has recognised it - with dksc(2,1,x) or dksc(3,1,x), depending on which channel you use, for the PROM system/OSLoad partition variables in lieu of dksc(0,1,x).

EDIT: glad to see you've sorted it out; for others' reference this post viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16070&p=135729#p135729 indicates that you could not boot from a drive connected via a PCI-card controller, because the PROM variable will not accept 2 or 3 as the controller number, even if the controller is a QLA12160.
Last edited by ajw99uk on Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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