Announcing The IRIX Network

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hamei
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby hamei » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:40 pm

Raion-Fox wrote:The guidelines were instituted in 2006, nearly 12 years ago. In that time the entire technical industry has turned over many times.

But the entire legal community has not. Adobe is no more forgiving now than they were in 1990.

And much as I dislike Adobe, they can't be. If they turn a blind eye to buy-sell-trade of Program A, that can legally be construed as turning a blind eye to all of it. Which they cannot do.

The current situation is already the best. People meet each other and exchange email. That is perfect.

unlike say the Amiga community, the Macintosh community or any other vintage community, SGI only has Nekochan - and now mine - as well as ebay to sell software. It's quite unwelcoming and a detriment to new hobbyists.

There is no SGI "community." Hasn't been for several years. As for selling commercial software, you go down that hallway by yourself. Others have done that and paid the consequences. Why should neko risk anything because a new hobbyist is too stupid to figure out file-sharing programs ?

And as far as mocking people like Dodoid - I really don't approve. Dodoid is a great guy.

I am sure Dodoid is a lovely person. I am not mocking him. I am mocking the 85% of the people here who luvs their SGI's but are too lazy to even turn them on. Looks real pretty on the shelf tho. I've got an SGI aren't I speshul ?

https absolutely SUCKS for anyone using older software. It's totally unnecessary for a huge number of the sites it is used on.

But then, if the SGI community ever used their SGI computers, they would already know that.
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby Trippynet » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:30 am

hamei wrote:But then, if the SGI community ever used their SGI computers, they would already know that.


Thing is, browsing the web natively on an SGI has become increasingly difficult for a while now - HTTPS or not. I seem to recall your own preferred method is to RDP to a browser on a Windows box for that (and your right - it's my preferred method too). That being the case, the HTTPS issue is less of a problem for this.

For what it's worth, I think it is pointless when consumption-only sites (such as news sites) become HTTPS - I mean, what's the point of protecting publicly viewable info? For sites where people post things and use passwords, I can understand HTTPS being available. Of course, so long as it is optional for retro sites like this, that should cater to most people IMO.
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:Indigo2IMP: - Nitrogen: R10000 195MHz CPU, 384MB RAM, SolidIMPACT Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 100Mb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.22
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby hamei » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:40 am

Trippynet wrote:Thing is, browsing the web natively on an SGI has become increasingly difficult for a while now ...

Yes. Difficult and slow. But not impossible. The stewpid https shit makes it impossible. The worthless assbreaths at Mozilla didn't even allow a "go here anyway" button. Oh no, we're not going to let you !

I've got a pot of tar and a big bag of feathers if anyone would like to join me in a mozilla going-away party.

That's a good project for a C code guy - rip all the certificates and ssl crap out of Firefox so we can actually use the internet again. Probaly speed the thing up by a factor of three, too.

I seem to recall your own preferred method is to RDP to a browser on a Windows box for that

That did work but the Assist went Mackletosh. Mackletosh (it's yewnix !) has nothing like that. Some day I'll have to try a remote display over X. Remember, it's yewnix :)

I did have one question about that while I'm here ... cheese grater Mac is about as big as a two-car garage. And it's for Creative Professionals and stuff. Looks pretty.

So why is the audio output a cheesy little 3.5 mm phone jack ? Not enough room ?

For what it's worth, I think it is pointless when consumption-only sites (such as news sites) become HTTPS

Or the manuals and docs pages for NixOS or half the rest of the braindead geek world, and getting worse every day ... oooh ! needs to be secure !

Except it flocking isn't, anyway. The whole thing is b.s. "Data breach" anyone ? Get over it, people. The internet is not "secure" and is never going to be. It's in the hands of Facebleep and a horde of other assholes. Everything you touch goes through goober and the nsa. 'Secure' is like the sugar plum fairy. Spreading another layer of crap over our lives for no purpose is ... annoying.

I mean, what's the point of protecting publicly viewable info?

Gives some twelve-year-old a hardon ?
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby guardian452 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:21 am

hamei wrote:The current situation is already the best. People meet each other and exchange email. That is perfect.

I like the way this works. I've even received full HDDs from other members. I don't see why it needs to be asked for and received publicly, in the forums or IRC.

hamei wrote:
Trippynet wrote:Thing is, browsing the web natively on an SGI has become increasingly difficult for a while now ...

Yes. Difficult and slow. But not impossible.


From what I've seen, you're not missing much of anything, not having access to "the modern web".


That did work but the Assist went Mackletosh. Mackletosh (it's yewnix !) has nothing like that. Some day I'll have to try a remote display over X. Remember, it's yewnix :)

I did have one question about that while I'm here ... cheese grater Mac is about as big as a two-car garage. And it's for Creative Professionals and stuff. Looks pretty.

So why is the audio output a cheesy little 3.5 mm phone jack ? Not enough room ?

So you can plug headphones, computer speakers, or an optical cable in. If you need more than that, it's got FW, USB, PCI, for your REAL audio interfaces...

And there is VNC sharing built in. You do NOT want to deal with X11 on mac.
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby hamei » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:43 am

guardian452 wrote:And there is VNC sharing built in. You do NOT want to deal with X11 on mac.

Now that you reminded me, I did play with that from Irix. Tightvnc worked but this really weird thing happened (so i quit temporarily). It would change the user. If the Assist was using the computer and I vnc-ed in, suddenly my stuff was on her screen. That created some friction :D

I should play with this again, but I assume that OS X is multi-user ? In reality, not just on paper ?

I did kinda lose intereest in X on bapple when I figured out (duh) that most apple programs don't use X so they would not display on the Octane. Damn :(

You know, Apple is prettier but Irix is better. This apple thing pisses me off if I have to use it. Oh noes ! you didn't touch this file in ten minutes ! It's locked !

I swear, software developers should have to wear a big red I on their clothes at all times, so we could point and laugh and spit on them.
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby Dodoid » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:21 am

Raion-Fox wrote:As for your statements, Dodoid, SGIs are in a weird middle ground right now - too old to be useful for everyday stuff and too new and advanced for most vintage collectors - but I suspect as Amigas slowly disappear and die they'll move to Alphas, PA-RISC, SGI-MIPS and VAX gear.


There are a lot of SGIs are certainly not too new for most collectors. While it's true that not everyone will want to own a Tezro or Octane2, The Indigo and the Amiga 3000 are from around the same time period, as is the Macintosh Classic, some early-ish 486 boxes, and, within the realm of gaming, the Super Nintendo. All of those are decidedly vintage hardware with a popular collecting scene right now. Step up to 1993, with the Indy, Indigo2, and Onyx/Challenge and you are talking about "peak 486" in PC land, the release of Doom, and Apple is still selling the IIe, along with their very first PowerBooks. While you are right that 1980s hardware is popular, there is no shortage of demand for early 90s hardware either. Have you seen what decent condition 486 computers are going for lately? This era is definitely collectible, and has been for quite a while.

Also, I honestly don't see this happening. I would argue that while Amigas fall into the "mainstream collectible" category, the other systems you named are more "niche collectibles". People usually want to collect systems they remember (either they owned them, or they used them, or they knew someone who owned them). Now, those who used SGIs in the 90s may want them now because of it, and I think that holds true. Quite a few people on this forum used to use SGIs at work. However, there's a reason the most commonly collected computers are usually home machines. They are the machines that the most people remember.

I think you may be forgetting a fundamental difference between the Amiga and something like an SGI or PA-RISC box. They are both non-x86, non-PC-compatible computers from the 90s, but the Amiga is a home system. Think about it. Why are people collecting Amigas to begin with? If they are likely to transition to SGI, DEC, HP, and VAX hardware, how come there are not an equal number of Amiga, SGI, DEC, HP, and VAX hobbyists right now? Something clearly makes the Amiga more desirable to collectors, otherwise they wouldn't be overwhelmingly favoring them right now. That factor is that, simply put, it's a home machine, and it's a machine people remember. My dad had a bunch of Amiga machines back in the late 80s and early 90s, and he used his Amiga every day, but the most he ever knew about SGI was that he was pretty sure there was a lab at his university with "some kind of IRIS". Clearly, if he is going to get into vintage computer collecting, he would probably want to go for the machine he remembers using every day, rather than the machine he remembers possibly existing... somewhere, maybe...?

Now, there are outliers. I wasn't alive during any of this, and certainly never used an SGI in the early 90s, and yet I have chosen SGI. This is the case for some other members of this forum, as well. However, that's sort of an uncommon occurrence. While you could possibly argue that the number of outliers will increase as the population as a whole does (as more people get into vintage computing), and that is true, this change is gradual, small, and tied inherently to the rate of growth of vintage computing as a whole.

Of course, there's also the element of games to consider. I am not a gamer myself, but you have to admit, SGIs (and especially the other UNIX hardware you mentioned) don't have that many games (even if they are technically fully capable of running them). Now, of course, not every retro computing hobbyist is a gamer, but a good portion, very likely a majority, are. That portion is probably interested in the Amiga, as the Amiga has a large library of good games, but would probably not care all that much about an SGI, or especially a VAX. Again, I am not saying that the lack of games makes SGI systems as a whole unappealing, but it certainly makes them unappealing to the chunk of retro computing hobbyists who are in it for the games.

Finally, UNIX boxes are just not that close of a "match" to the Amiga. If your argument is that present Amiga collectors will diversify once Amigas become too expensive, then I think I agree, but to UNIX systems? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to opt for another, more similar computer like an Atari ST or an Apple IIGS instead? Saying that they will jump ship to Unix just doesn't make sense.

I am not saying this is impossible. I am just saying I think it is highly unlikely. In the end, who knows. Like I said, maybe it'll be Sun.
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby guardian452 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:43 am

hamei wrote:
guardian452 wrote:And there is VNC sharing built in. You do NOT want to deal with X11 on mac.

Now that you reminded me, I did play with that from Irix. Tightvnc worked but this really weird thing happened (so i quit temporarily). It would change the user. If the Assist was using the computer and I vnc-ed in, suddenly my stuff was on her screen. That created some friction :D

I should play with this again, but I assume that OS X is multi-user ? In reality, not just on paper ?


Yes, you can log in as a second user and the local user is none the wiser. I played with it a bit to confirm but it is pretty simple once you have another account on the mac. You need to check "Remote Management" instead of "Screen Sharing".

So in "Remote Management", under computer settings, check the box for VNC viewers may control screen... under options, check the box for local users can observe and control. There are other settings that can be monkeyed with as well.
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby Hakimoto » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:17 am

guardian452 wrote:I'm going to make my own Nekochan! With Blackjack! And Hookers!


:lol: Hilarious, g, that one really made me laugh! I should put that on a T-shirt. :D

WOW! The way this thread has gone! The people who have chimed in! OMG!

Nekochan.net is so dead, right? We're all not here! This is but a hypothetical conversation playing out in someone's head!

:lol:

But, yeah, fun aside: RF, keep it "friendly advertising", please. I second foetz on his warning. There's providing alternatives and then there's neko-bashing. Let's not cross that line.
The Bandito wrote:In a few years, no doubt, you'll be able to buy a computer,
software and operating system that will match the capabilities
of your current Amiga at about the price you paid for the
Amiga way back when. But you can smile to yourself, knowing
that you were touching the future years before the rest of
the world. And that other computers and operating systems
will do with brute force what the Amiga did years before with
grace, elegance and style.


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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby guardian452 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:32 am

Hakimoto wrote:I should put that on a T-shirt. :D



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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby Irinikus » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:51 am

Dodoid, I agree with you completely when it comes to people who are purely into computer collecting, for nostalgia purposes. (People who don't collect things in general)

As a collector of things in general, I can tell you that collectors are usually compelled to collect interesting things that have a rarity factor. (Things that not everybody can have.)

Just because something is old doesn't make it valuable by default. (Rarity, combined with a well established name plays a large role)

SGI machines are starting to meet these criteria, as they're certainly interesting, in terms of both hardware and aesthetic design. At the moment, they're just a bit too common for most collectors out there to really take notice of them yet.

This will of course change as time passes and good examples of these machine become more hard to come by. (If a collector wants a piece to complete his collection, he will generally be willing to pay whatever he needs to, to get it.)

Most home computers were simply discarded when they became obsolete, or were given to kids to play with, and were thus destroyed. This has also in a way caused them to become rare rather quickly, and as a result, their price has risen more quickly than that of SGI’s.

Large companies don't tend to get rid of obsolete items as quickly, due to various logistical inefficiencies, this resulted in large companies such as NASA and Boeing selling off large lots of SGI machines some time after they became obsolete. This helped to "flood" the market, allowing SGI's to remain cheaply available for longer. This has helped to keep the price of the machines down up until now. From this point onwards, they're going to become more hard to come by and as a result, their value sill start to increase as collectors start to become interested in them.

It’s interesting the you mention SUN at the end of your statement, as I’m just getting into SUN and they’re also very cool, interesting machines!
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby guardian452 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:27 am

There's no demand because they aren't desirable. What's the point of collecting government supercomputers if you don't need to detect cold war-era missiles or design a jet airliner?

These big irons just aren't accessible for the average joe. Apple IIs and Commodores have a cute retro factor and you can even give them to kids to play with. There's a lot of overlap with the same sort of person who might be into pinball machines or old cars.

Who wants to rewire their house so they can stare at a command line by the time they have everything working?

Y'all sound like beanie baby collectors. I like them but I'm a weird computer nerd. Everybody interested in these things world-wide would fit in a high school gymnasium, and they all have one already. Investment? :lol:

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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby uunix » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:31 am

guardian452 wrote:What's the point of collecting government supercomputers if you don't need to detect cold war-era missiles..

In todays climate, I think everyone should have a cold war missile detecting super computer. :D
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby Irinikus » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:47 am

guardian452 wrote:There's no demand because they aren't desirable. What's the point of collecting government supercomputers if you don't need to detect cold war-era missiles or design a jet airliner?

These big irons just aren't accessible for the average joe. Apple IIs and Commodores have a cute retro factor and you can even give them to kids to play with. There's a lot of overlap with the same sort of person who might be into pinball machines or old cars.

Who wants to rewire their house so they can stare at a command line by the time they have everything working?

Y'all sound like beanie baby collectors. I like them but I'm a weird computer nerd. Everybody interested in these things world-wide would fit in a high school gymnasium, and they all have one already. Investment? :lol:


I don't collect anything for investment purposes, I have proper investments for that purpose.

I collect things simply because they interest me. (Be it a Solid Gold Limited Edition Montblanc Fountain pen, ceramic electrical insulator or an SGI O2)

Companies such as Boeing didn’t just sell off consignments of super computers, they also selled of large consignments of smaller workstations such as octanes and indigo2’s.
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby guardian452 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:51 am

Irinikus wrote:Companies such as Boeing didn’t just sell off consignments of super computers, they also selled of large consignments of smaller workstations such as octanes and indigo2’s.


I know. I just remember when I picked up the Onyx and Crimson, they had so many skids of O2000 desksides, 4 to a skid, and each skid was $40, and there were no takers. Everybody who wants them got theirs already. People thinking they are going to climb seriously in value are crazy.

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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby Irinikus » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:59 am

I agree that SGI’s will never Sell for millions of dollars in the future, but they could definitely treble in price though. (Simply making entry into the hobby more difficult.)

I’m sure that there aren’t many people here who collect their machines for investment purposes. If anything they just end up by costing you allot of money, but if it satisfies an interest, then that’s good enough for me.
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