Announcing The IRIX Network

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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby Krokodil » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:16 pm

Hopefully you can get more traffic over there. Every time I look at it, there's very little if anything new and that sucks. :(

It will have to be able to run without HTTPS, since alot of older computers browsers don't support modern encryption protocols. On the other hand it may end up being inaccessible to everyone else if non HTTPS sites get blacklisted by products like Chrome.
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby Raion-Fox » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:20 pm

Dodoid wrote:HTTPS would be nice, though of course leave HTTP an option... wait, if it's incompatible, does that drive D1 sales? :)


I'm not running GET commands. More, the Wiki will eventually have an archive of useful/important threads. If you want, you can email me a list of threads you think deserve archiving. You can also screenshot and add them to the wiki.

This site can't be that costly to run, tbh. It's using Speakeasy DSL - so it's run out of his house presumably.

He's been MIA on twitter since Jan 31, so I can't help but think the site is in it's sunset years.

IRIX.pw is on a Vultr cloud instance using NGINX and FreeBSD/PHP 7.1 with only 2GB - and it's currently using less than 1GB of memory - I have no issue running this thing indefinitely.

I keep backups of everything on IRIX.pw locally.
:O3x02L: R16000 700MHz 8GB RAM kanna
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby Krokodil » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:34 pm

Raion-Fox wrote:
Dodoid wrote:HTTPS would be nice, though of course leave HTTP an option... wait, if it's incompatible, does that drive D1 sales? :)


I'm not running GET commands. More, the Wiki will eventually have an archive of useful/important threads. If you want, you can email me a list of threads you think deserve archiving. You can also screenshot and add them to the wiki.

This site can't be that costly to run, tbh. It's using Speakeasy DSL - so it's run out of his house presumably.

He's been MIA on twitter since Jan 31, so I can't help but think the site is in it's sunset years.

IRIX.pw is on a Vultr cloud instance using NGINX and FreeBSD/PHP 7.1 with only 2GB - and it's currently using less than 1GB of memory - I have no issue running this thing indefinitely.

I keep backups of everything on IRIX.pw locally.


Especially get the wiki stuff. Gold mine of information in there.
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby hamei » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:37 am

Dodoid wrote:HTTPS would be nice ...

Beg to differ. It would not be nice. It would be a giant pain in the ass.

For non-banking sites where people are not storing photos of themselves giving the dog head, https is a pile of bear squat. It is a pointless useless destructive annoyance. This entire "security" shtick is enough to drive a sane person crazy.

FUCK SECURITY.

Just don't store personal things on the internet. If you don't want people to call you at 3:00 a.m. asking for a blow job, DON'T PUT YOUR PHONE NUMBER ON THE WALL OF THE BATHROOM DOWN AT THE BUS STATION.

Simple.

Fuck Chrome, too. And the horse google rode in on.
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby skywriter » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:49 am

Raion-Fox wrote:valuable content.

LOL
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby guardian452 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:46 am

This site can't be that costly to run, tbh. It's using Speakeasy DSL - so it's run out of his house presumably.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16721847
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16722433&p=7314356#p7314356

I can't help but think the site is in it's sunset years.
It's been in it's "sunset years" for a decade or more, this place has been circling the drain since not long after Irix was EOL'ed. :roll:

IRIX.pw is on a Vultr cloud instance... no issue running this thing indefinitely.
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I'd trust the synology in my closet to run 15 years before I'd trust any of the big clown providers (amazon, google) let alone one we've never heard of.

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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby foetz » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:51 am

He's been MIA on twitter since Jan 31, so I can't help but think the site is in it's sunset years.

it's not. we have a secondary option ready in case neko doesn't wanna run it anymore at some point.

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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby Raion-Fox » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:02 am

guardian452 wrote: :lol:
I'd trust the synology in my closet to run 15 years before I'd trust any of the big clown providers (amazon, google) let alone one we've never heard of.


Vultr isn't a big company compared to those you listed but cost, reliability and space is a big factor. I live in the sticks with unreliable, dirty power and Metro cast cable that uses a dynamic IP and my roommate wouldn't appreciate a noisy computer running 24/7 for running a forum. But if you're going to complain vote with your browser: i.e. if you ain't interested you don't have to visit, you checked out of the hobby long ago so presumably you stick around for what remains of the community?

foetz wrote:it's not. we have a secondary option ready in case neko doesn't wanna run it anymore at some point.

So you have access to the domain, a suitable server, a backup of the forum and wiki databases as well as the phpbb directories?

Something tells me if you lack any one of those things at a moments notice (I.e. if it takes you 3-4 months to get the site completely back online then people will move elsewhere.)

I'm just waiting for the tipping point where SGIs reach mainstream popularity in the vintage hobby and the unreasonable, outdated restrictions on this forum for the sale of software to scare away enough new hobbyists (plus the longstanding troll here being a particular annoyance) from posting here they come elsewhere instead.
:O3x02L: R16000 700MHz 8GB RAM kanna
:Octane: R12000 300MHz SI 896MB RAM yuuka
:Octane2: R12000A 400MHz V6 2.5GB RAM
:Tezro: Quad R16000 700MHz V12 8GB RAM murasaki
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby guardian452 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:40 am

Raion-Fox wrote:you checked out of the hobby long ago so presumably you stick around for what remains of the community?

Just because the only "old shit" I have right now is an apple 2, apple 1, and an octane, doesn't mean I've checked out completely. I guess old thinkpads could count but PC stuff isn't very exciting for other people here. Ifwhen I'm in a position where I can devote the real estate again (e.g. a separate room I can devote to a workshop) I'll collect more, but I doubt I'll get into the big machines again. I work a lot more with CAD and EDA software that runs fine on modern equipment so my old stuff doesn't come out very much especially since I don't have a devoted space for it.

I have a nice garage at work but it's shared space so I don't leave stuff there.


Raion-Fox wrote:the unreasonable, outdated restrictions on this forum for the sale of software to scare away enough new hobbyists (plus the longstanding troll here being a particular annoyance) from posting here they come elsewhere instead.
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby Dodoid » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:58 am

I hope my channel helps SGIs become more mainstream than they currently are, and as the owner of a bunch of SGIs, I suppose I hope that my hardware is valuable. However, some things worry me about this scenario.

There are not as many SGIs as there are other old computers, and if they become a universally-sought-after item among vintage computer hobbyists, I hope that this community will not become an endless bidding war to see who can bid the most outrageous price yet. We are already well beyond the days of $25 Boeing Onyxes, and I have had a few people separately contact me after watching my videos saying that they want to buy an SGI machine, but don't understand why they cost so much.

We only have so many SGIs, and the number of SGIs that aren't owned by hobbyists/resellers is rapidly dwindling. Outside of specialized applications like medical imaging, apparently some industrial control with Indys, and possibly a couple of extremely old special-purpose video systems, SGIs are extremely hard to find. While someone may get into vintage computers/gaming with their mom's old Pentium II box from the basement, or an NES from a thrift store, very, very few people are going to be able to "just go grab that old Octane in the loft".

Right now, SGI hardware is a low-supply, low-demand product. There aren't that many, they don't sell that often, but not that many people want them. Overall, it's a relatively happy balance. It does lead to highly inconsistent pricing, but that's no big deal if people are willing to wait for a transaction that works for them. If SGIs gain mainstream appeal, they will become a low-supply, high-demand product, and that means prices are going to go up until equilibrium is achieved (exactly as many people can afford SGIs as there exists quantity of SGIs for).

That price is going to be high, and while it may be good for more people to know about SGIs, SGIs, especially the less abundant ones (and I'm not talking IRIS 1000s and Jurassic Classic Crimsons, I even just mean stuff like the O2+ or the Tezro) may become an item for the sort of person who puts it on a shelf in their living room next to their Apple Lisa and never run it for fear of accidentally damaging the power button. I'm sure we can all agree, that is not what we want.

All that said, I am not sure we will ever see SGIs "go mainstream". Is there any historical precedent for a niche computer product like this gaining widespread collectibility and a large hobby scene? On the contrary, mainstream collectibility seems to exist at the intersection of brand recognition and rarity, and is averse to obscurity.

Think about Apple. Indisputably the largest tech brand today, they are also a hotspot for collecting. Their most collectible computers are their rarest, but generally those which are not so obscure or strange. The Apple 1, the Twentieth Anniversary Mac, the Macintosh Portable, and the Lisa spring to mind. These are all low-supply, high-demand. On the other hand, they have a lot of other weird, rare computers that aren't so collectible, and could be likened more to SGIs right now. There is the Apple Network Server, the Developer Transition System, the Pippin, and more. These systems are certainly collectible, but they are weird, and don't really fall into the general Apple collecting scene. Their prices are also much more like that of SGIs (quite high, but highly variable and, ya know, not priced like an Apple 1). These are low-supply (the DTS especially is insanely rare), low-demand, and their "collectibility profile" much more closely matches that of SGIs.

I would classify these categories as "mainstream collectibles" and "niche collectibles", and I can't think of many examples of any product jumping from one category to the other, even as its price rises. The recognition, significance, and community of each category is fundamentally different from the other.

Then again, computer collecting is growing, and there is a first time for everything. Maybe SGIs WILL jump the gap, or, who knows, maybe it'll be Sun.

So, in short, I don't know :) .
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby Raion-Fox » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:41 pm

guardian452 wrote:Just because the only "old shit" I have right now is an apple 2, apple 1, and an octane, doesn't mean I've checked out completely. I guess old thinkpads could count but PC stuff isn't very exciting for other people here. Ifwhen I'm in a position where I can devote the real estate again (e.g. a separate room I can devote to a workshop) I'll collect more, but I doubt I'll get into the big machines again. I work a lot more with CAD and EDA software that runs fine on modern equipment so my old stuff doesn't come out very much especially since I don't have a devoted space for it.


I was not aware you still had an Octane - I presumed that when you sold off your Onyx and other stuff that you were checking out.

As for your statements, Dodoid, SGIs are in a weird middle ground right now - too old to be useful for everyday stuff and too new and advanced for most vintage collectors - but I suspect as Amigas slowly disappear and die they'll move to Alphas, PA-RISC, SGI-MIPS and VAX gear.

We're at a tipping point and the balance will tip the other way within 5 years I bet. And while that means that some stuff will hike up in price, other things will remain relatively stable.
:O3x02L: R16000 700MHz 8GB RAM kanna
:Octane: R12000 300MHz SI 896MB RAM yuuka
:Octane2: R12000A 400MHz V6 2.5GB RAM
:Tezro: Quad R16000 700MHz V12 8GB RAM murasaki
:Indy: (Acclaim) R4600 133MHz XL Graphics 32MB RAM
:Indy: (Challenge S) R4600 133MHz (MIPS III Build Server)

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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby foetz » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:34 pm

Raion-Fox wrote:Something tells me if you lack any one of those things at a moments notice (I.e. if it takes you 3-4 months to get the site completely back online then people will move elsewhere.)

I'm just waiting for the tipping point where SGIs reach mainstream popularity in the vintage hobby and the unreasonable, outdated restrictions on this forum for the sale of software to scare away enough new hobbyists (plus the longstanding troll here being a particular annoyance) from posting here they come elsewhere instead.

okay that's enough. us letting you advertise your site here is a courtesy. in return we can expect mutually respectful behavior. especially since you know exactly why certain rules are in place.

if you don't see it that way this thread is gone. your choice.

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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby Raion-Fox » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:37 pm

foetz wrote:okay that's enough. us letting you advertise your site here is a courtesy. in return we can expect mutually respectful behavior. especially since you know exactly why certain rules are in place.

if you don't see it that way this thread is gone. your choice.


I'm not being incivil - I'm making a valid point and criticism - but if you think that being critical is an actual personal attack - then I'll keep it to myself.

For the record, you've handled the troll problem as well as I probably would have - I'm not grilling you for that.
:O3x02L: R16000 700MHz 8GB RAM kanna
:Octane: R12000 300MHz SI 896MB RAM yuuka
:Octane2: R12000A 400MHz V6 2.5GB RAM
:Tezro: Quad R16000 700MHz V12 8GB RAM murasaki
:Indy: (Acclaim) R4600 133MHz XL Graphics 32MB RAM
:Indy: (Challenge S) R4600 133MHz (MIPS III Build Server)

I am probably posting from yangxiaolong, HP Z230 with Xeon E3-1230v3, 16GB RAM, GeForce 750ti, and running NetBSD and Windows 8.1 Embedded.
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby hamei » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:25 pm

Raion-Fox wrote: I'm making a valid point and criticism ....

No, it's not valid. Neko was hassled by attorneys. So he closed off that particular type of discussion for a reason. It's much easier and cleaner to disallow ALL discussion of commercial software than to wander into the swamp of "which software is okay, which is not ?" And safer.

When the attornies come knocking at your door and you get to cough up the big bucks to defend Joe Schmo's right to peddle Photoshop, then you can throw stones at neko.

Dodoid wrote:I hope my channel helps SGIs become more mainstream than they currently are ...

Oh shove it. There's hundreds of tardists in beta that none of you pwecious SGI-lovers have ever even looked at. A computer without software is useless, guys have spent hundreds of hours creating worthwhile programs to actually do stuff and then ... what ? The lovers of the precious SGI machines oh so cool I wanted one desperately since I was three did you see that original mousepad I got on fleabay WOW ! what do you do ?

Nothing. Bla bla bla.

So sit by your desk and never go to sea and you can be the ruler of the queen's navee ....
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Re: Announcing IRIX.pw

Unread postby Raion-Fox » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:52 pm

hamei wrote:No, it's not valid. Neko was hassled by attorneys. So he closed off that particular type of discussion for a reason. It's much easier and cleaner to disallow ALL discussion of commercial software than to wander into the swamp of "which software is okay, which is not ?" And safer.

When the attornies come knocking at your door and you get to cough up the big bucks to defend Joe Schmo's right to peddle Photoshop, then you can throw stones at neko.


Hear me out. I'm not throwing stones. The guidelines were instituted in 2006, nearly 12 years ago. In that time the entire technical industry has turned over many times.

Assuming you're not peddling warez, nobody, SGI/HPE included, is going to bat an eye if you resell software that's not been for sale for over a decade - and DMCA safe harbor provisions are super easy to follow.

In any case, I think the main issue is that unlike say the Amiga community, the Macintosh community or any other vintage community, SGI only has Nekochan - and now mine - as well as ebay to sell software. It's quite unwelcoming and a detriment to new hobbyists.

So rather than deride my criticism of the policy I'd like an open discussion on it. While we won't change anything in the meantime, it's not a good situation.

And as far as mocking people like Dodoid - I really don't approve. Dodoid is a great guy.
:O3x02L: R16000 700MHz 8GB RAM kanna
:Octane: R12000 300MHz SI 896MB RAM yuuka
:Octane2: R12000A 400MHz V6 2.5GB RAM
:Tezro: Quad R16000 700MHz V12 8GB RAM murasaki
:Indy: (Acclaim) R4600 133MHz XL Graphics 32MB RAM
:Indy: (Challenge S) R4600 133MHz (MIPS III Build Server)

I am probably posting from yangxiaolong, HP Z230 with Xeon E3-1230v3, 16GB RAM, GeForce 750ti, and running NetBSD and Windows 8.1 Embedded.
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