CRT Projector for Bedroom Entertainment Setup?

For friendly off topic discussion not covered in a forum above.
Forum rules
No politics, please.
User avatar
IAMNOTDEFECTIVE
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:53 am
Location: Chelmsford/Essex/UK
Contact:

CRT Projector for Bedroom Entertainment Setup?

Unread postby IAMNOTDEFECTIVE » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:58 pm

Hello all,
I'm planning a retrofit on my entertainment setup for my bedroom (more like a studio with a bed strapped in it) and I stumbled across some CRT Projectors and here's what I've noticed about them:

    - They offer a better contrast ratio and colour compared to LCD and DLP projectors (Like the more modern Laser Projectors/OLED TV)
    - They're highly modular
    - Has a longer operation life, again comparable to more modern Laser Projectors
    - But requires more maintenance according to some people
Do you think I should get a CRT Projector; like the Barco Cine 6 or Sony G70? Or should I get a more modern DLP projector? I'm not kidding myself here, I know they're larger/bulkier, heavier and require a ton more energy then their DLP/LCD counterparts, and considering the size of the screen (40", or a viewable size of 90x51cm) and the distance from the pillow of the bed to the screen itself is only around 150cm - I'm really on the fence on this one and I would love to hear what you think on this... unique proposition for a bed theatre thing.
I look forward on hearing your views!

EDIT - 16/10/17
So since this discussion has seemingly ended, here is what I've discovered: generally it seems I should go with a DLP projector when I upgrade my entertainment setup a year from now...

So here is what I'm gonna do - when it is time for me to pick a projector, I'll look for a Cine 6 or Cine 7 CRT projector first... failing to find one I'll go and pick up a DLP or Laser Projector.

Thank you everyone for contributing to this discussion and help come down to a decision on the plan of action I shall take! ;)
Last edited by IAMNOTDEFECTIVE on Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hackintosh VW (Late 2015) - Core i7-4790k, Geforce GTX 970, 8GB RAM (http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/PwQ8pg)
Surface Book (Mid 2015) - Core i7-6600U, GeForce GTX 945M, 16GB RAM
------------------------------------
Full time Introvert Tech Geek and 3D Animator... Or your money back guaranteed!

robespierre
Posts: 1579
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:28 pm
Location: Boston

Re: CRT Projector for Bedroom Entertainment Setup?

Unread postby robespierre » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:33 am

Projectors have a specified throw distance, which is the distance between the lens and screen at which it can focus. This will be specified with the lens (or with CRTs, lenses) that the projector can use. Unfortunately, from what I can see of some Barco literature, they choose to only print the screen size and not throw distance (thumbs down icon). You will need to find out the throw distance required before you can use it in a confined space.

CRT projectors look good, but understand that they are not as bright as DLP projectors and are ideal in a completely dark room. The Cine 6 also doesn't have Scheimpflug correction, so its geometry is going to be at a similar level to a DLP projector. It does have "Iris3" which automatically sets convergence using a camera.
:PI: :O2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2IMP:

User avatar
IAMNOTDEFECTIVE
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:53 am
Location: Chelmsford/Essex/UK
Contact:

Re: CRT Projector for Bedroom Entertainment Setup?

Unread postby IAMNOTDEFECTIVE » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:57 pm

robespierre wrote:Projectors have a specified throw distance,

robespierre wrote:You will need to find out the throw distance required before you can use it in a confined space.


I'm not sure this is relevant but I found some sort of formula for a "correct screen position" in the Cine 6's installation manual which must have some sort of throw distance numbers in there to get an equation to the distance for the display and a "correction value", which for me I calculated the optimal distance being 112cm with a correction value of -5.484cm respectively. So maybe that'll help... I can link you to the manual in question if you want.

robespierre wrote:CRT projectors look good, but understand that they are not as bright as DLP projectors and are ideal in a completely dark room


I know, from what I've read late 90's to early 2000 CRT projectors has a grand total of 1000-1200 lumens depending on the model and make. The BARCO Cine 6 has 1000 lumens according to the brochure, which I do realise isn't the brightest projector in this day'n'age... But hopefully with the curtains drown back during the day I should get an adequate viewing experience if I do go with a CRT Projector.
Hackintosh VW (Late 2015) - Core i7-4790k, Geforce GTX 970, 8GB RAM (http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/PwQ8pg)
Surface Book (Mid 2015) - Core i7-6600U, GeForce GTX 945M, 16GB RAM
------------------------------------
Full time Introvert Tech Geek and 3D Animator... Or your money back guaranteed!

User avatar
guardian452
Donor
Donor
Posts: 3467
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:12 pm
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: CRT Projector for Bedroom Entertainment Setup?

Unread postby guardian452 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:14 pm

Some of the modern DLP projectors are really great. Throw distance of only a foot or two, bright enough to use during the day by only closing the shades, etc; full 1080p is available for a reasonable price.

However you can get a really great 1080 or 4k LCD for about the same price and is as big as you could want. At my local supermarket they have a 65" 4k LG TV on sale for $800 right now.

Sorry but display technology is an area where I feel zero nostalgia. I am not that old but I can still remember when a crummy 17" LCD was that price and it had like a 2:1 contrast ratio; we were all amazed that it was only 5 inches thick, or perhaps a decent 21" CRT monitor that weight 100 lbs and could cook an egg on top.

User avatar
pentium
Posts: 4747
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:29 pm
Location: Kamloops, BC

Re: CRT Projector for Bedroom Entertainment Setup?

Unread postby pentium » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:58 pm

The one advantage I've found that the CRT units have over LCD and DLP units are that they are much better at resolution scaling. I can find the usual 1024x768, 1920x720 or 1920x1080 units(or units that totally say they are but they are TOTALLY scaling the hell out of something smaller) but they do really weird things if you are not using the exact aspect ratio and when you want to go above that the projectors start getting very expensive.
Most Barco and Sony projection units are also field upgradeable via aftermarket I/O boards to support HDMI, 60p and 3D.
If you are like me however where my room is 12 feet long if you do not mind chaining your projector to the ceiling and your windows are not south facing you should be fine. Moreso if you can get a good deal on a CRT unit.
:Crimson: :Onyx: :O2000: :O200: :O200: :PI: :PI: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Octane: :O2: :1600SW: :Indigo2: :Indigo2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2IMP: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Cube:

Image <-------- A very happy forum member.

User avatar
guardian452
Donor
Donor
Posts: 3467
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:12 pm
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: CRT Projector for Bedroom Entertainment Setup?

Unread postby guardian452 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:07 pm

pentium wrote:The one advantage I've found that the CRT units have over LCD and DLP units are that they are much better at resolution scaling. I can find the usual 1024x768, 1920x720 or 1920x1080 units(or units that totally say they are but they are TOTALLY scaling the hell out of something smaller) but they do really weird things if you are not using the exact aspect ratio and when you want to go above that the projectors start getting very expensive.


This is also very true. However, once you get above the normal resolution your eyes can... er, resolve, (like a 4k TV, or even 3200x1800 on my 13" laptop) scaling doesn't matter nearly as much. Maybe newer displays have better scaling algorithms?

I think (this is of course subjective) that a good rule of thumb is if you are scaling to 1/2 or less of the native resolution, the CRT loses it's advantage. And I have 4k displays on my work PC, 1080 looks perfect so long as you turn off subpixel hinting (I run some older apps simply scaled 200%, looks even better than a native 1080 panel because there is no screen-door effect).

4k projectors are NOT cheap, however. Not yet, at least.

edit:

I just read in your OP you are looking to project on a 40" screen... I'm sorry, but unless you enjoy tinkering with old projectors as a hobby this is ridiculous. (of course, it can be a fine hobby, tho I expect finding replacement tubes may be a problem) You can get a decent cheap TV in that size that will cost the same as a good projection screen. And you'll have to test to see if the projector can even focus that close.

However I don't think brightness will be a problem :)

I think when you have a bad tube and want to replace it and find out a new part is 5 times the price you paid for the whole projector...


Sorry, I've been there (albeit with a rear-projection unit).
Last edited by guardian452 on Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Raion-Fox
Donor
Donor
Posts: 1445
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:01 pm
Location: near King George, Virginia
Contact:

Re: CRT Projector for Bedroom Entertainment Setup?

Unread postby Raion-Fox » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:12 pm

guardian452 wrote:Some of the modern DLP projectors are really great. Throw distance of only a foot or two, bright enough to use during the day by only closing the shades, etc; full 1080p is available for a reasonable price.

However you can get a really great 1080 or 4k LCD for about the same price and is as big as you could want. At my local supermarket they have a 65" 4k LG TV on sale for $800 right now.

Sorry but display technology is an area where I feel zero nostalgia. I am not that old but I can still remember when a crummy 17" LCD was that price and it had like a 2:1 contrast ratio; we were all amazed that it was only 5 inches thick, or perhaps a decent 21" CRT monitor that weight 100 lbs and could cook an egg on top.



He is asking about a CRT projector which has superior color contrast even to OLED and bright enough to use in most bedrooms. Other than weight and cost there aren't many downsides. I can also tell you as someone who plays a lot of old games that my RGB modded Trinitron displays a better picture to that of a 4k TV for my Neo Geo and other old consoles. The softening of the image smooths out the imperfections and makes the image much less muddy and laggy. You see once you pipe an analog source into something like a framemeister and then send it through a receiver and a TV's inbuilt electronics the image is already several milliseconds milliseconds off due to the hardware and software decodings. A CRT simply is the best image form hands down in most cases. Some argument can be had for OLED but until wear patterns get to be decent to consider use it isn't worth it.
:O3x02L: R16000 700MHz 8GB RAM kanna
:Octane: R12000 300MHz SI 896MB RAM yuuka
:Octane2: R12000A 400MHz V6 2.5GB RAM
:Indy: (Acclaim) R4600 133MHz XL Graphics 32MB RAM
:Indy: (Challenge S) R4600 133MHz (MIPS III Build Server)

I am probably posting from yangxiaolong, HP Z230 with Xeon E3-1230v3, 16GB RAM, GeForce 750ti, and running NetBSD and Windows 8.1 Embedded.
Owner and operator of http://irix.pw

User avatar
guardian452
Donor
Donor
Posts: 3467
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:12 pm
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: CRT Projector for Bedroom Entertainment Setup?

Unread postby guardian452 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:53 pm

I remember back in the day when CRT screens had dazzling pictures.

I don't think I've seen a good one in at least 10 years.

The phosphors wear unevenly (burn in) leaving latent images, so many I've seen where you can see the windows xp login screen etched in even when they are turned off after a few months of use.

The cathode material will eventually wear, and scatter itself on the inside of the tube. Electron guns get worn down much like a pencil, leaving a permanently fuzzy and dim image which no tweaking of the focus and screen pots will fix. This backscattered material (as well as other contaminants) will reflect electrons that don't make it to the phosphor, causing a glow and ruining whatever hope of a superior contrast ratio your set's maker claimed back in 1996.

As the circuitry ages they tend to become noisier, I personally can't stand the 15.7 khz LOPT whine most NTSC sets make. The good news is they are very serviceable, if you are can find a good CRT tech (they are still around!). One of our lab techs at university had a very nice vacuum pump, he could rebuild tubes and everything, said he hadn't touched the equipment in 20 years, and this was 15 years ago! We had lots of sets in pieces, including a couple opened tubes with the electron guns removed. I remember marveling back then that I was shocked such a thing could work at all. THAT magic is gone with modern TVs :)

I recycled my projection TV when watching a football game back in 2011 or 2012, Chelsea was playing, can't remember who, they looked like they were wearing black kit instead of blue, with a strange glow around the players. The blue tube could show solid color but the detail was gone. It went from being old but serviceable to laughably bad over the course of a few weeks of regular use. When it went, it went quickly. A new tube was $400, an old one was $50 with a 30-day warranty... It'd be like buying a used lightbulb.

I had a 20" philips for a while after that, the doming of the mask was so bad the purity would be ruined after more than 5-10 seconds of white raster and would require a few minutes to cool down. This was back when flat-screen CRTs were the rage. It did this when it was new, too. I know because it used to belong to my parents. I went back to my old 27" trinitron, that was my last CRT and it eventually got so fuzzy parts of the OSD were unreadable. I had to pay to have it hauled away and recycled. Picked up a cheap 39" Vizio, it was just in time for the 2014 world cup, it's been working great ever since.

I said something similar about audio gear back in 2009, and I'm going to say it again here: use your ears eyes to decide.
guardian452 wrote:
vvostenak wrote:well, so doesnt someone know the S/N ratio and total harmonic distortion of the O2 audio board?


Those numbers are just marketing indoctrination. Theoretically they would have some meaning but each product is measured differently so it's pointless. Use your ears to decide. ;)

The audio module is the A/V module with the video parts removed, so the specification should be the same.


I agree with the argument about old games. That's why the NES classic has CRT mode, most (modern) emulators have something to that effect. There was an NES game that used something about the RGB stripe and non-native resolution to make background stars twinkle in a night scene. I can't remember what game it was (SMB3???) but I remember commenting about how ugly it looked on a computer monitor (that would have been a CRT back then, too, we were using Nesticle as an emulator) and was told by my friend that the effect only worked on a "real TV" with a real NES... there was no such thing as LCDs at the time, at least not for common folk.

Yes, there are many things that only a CRT can do. Showing movies is not one of them.

If you have an "old" CRT in good condition today, bear in mind it has been well taken care of, very low hours, and was probably significantly more expensive than the average set when new, as most of them have long since been recycled. I have owned or at least used my fair share of high-end NEC and Sony monitors, including a couple SGI and Nanao branded ones. Typically it would be the weight or power consumption that made these guys undesirable.

One good thing about projection sets is you don't have to worry about purity or doming. Each tube is monochrome so there is no phosphor mask! Convergence can be a royal bitch tho. Mine supposedly had automatic convergence, it worked but it never got it perfect and there was no manual adjustment. (this was a fairly inexpensive AKAI-brand 1080i set from the early 2000s that I bought in 2008 or so, I'd expect a professional Sony or Barco to have manual adjustments).

User avatar
Raion-Fox
Donor
Donor
Posts: 1445
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:01 pm
Location: near King George, Virginia
Contact:

Re: CRT Projector for Bedroom Entertainment Setup?

Unread postby Raion-Fox » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:50 pm

I have a Trinitron that predates the WEGA change, and a PVM both of which have been well used but they have been serviced and adjusted properly to stay running well. And this is just me but I watch my old movies like Pulp Fiction, Life of Brian as well as 1980s anime on CRT exclusively. I'm no expert at servicing CRTs but the high end aperture grille CRTs are miles ahead of the usual TVs sold at either Costco or your local electronics store. And it makes sense, aperture grille TVs were EXPENSIVE.

The CRT whine doesn't bother me because I can only hear it for the first 2 or so mins before it completely gets blocked out.

I do possess LED TVs but ive never had a set last more than five years. I had a plasma last 11, but its failure sent acrid smoke throughout my house. I have a 2011 LED TV that I keep in the spare room and the picture is more washed out than my hand me down Van Halen shirt from 1976.

Emulation is something I do on a vita on the go, not as an alternative to actual collection and the games.
:O3x02L: R16000 700MHz 8GB RAM kanna
:Octane: R12000 300MHz SI 896MB RAM yuuka
:Octane2: R12000A 400MHz V6 2.5GB RAM
:Indy: (Acclaim) R4600 133MHz XL Graphics 32MB RAM
:Indy: (Challenge S) R4600 133MHz (MIPS III Build Server)

I am probably posting from yangxiaolong, HP Z230 with Xeon E3-1230v3, 16GB RAM, GeForce 750ti, and running NetBSD and Windows 8.1 Embedded.
Owner and operator of http://irix.pw

User avatar
marshallh
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:53 pm

Re: CRT Projector for Bedroom Entertainment Setup?

Unread postby marshallh » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:32 pm

Speaking from expreince, CRT projectors are inferior in every practical sense.
Incredibly heavy, huge, not as bright. The first time you spend 2 hours tweaking convergence it's not bad, it's when you bump the projector or move it in any way you get to repeat the process again. You may end up building a custom table just to set the projector on. Depending on the model it may have very limited perspective correction options so you'd have to mount it perfectly horiztonal exactly halfway up the ceiling. You will need a longer throw distance than a modern projector, so you have to mount it in a larger, uncluttered room.

Modern projectors are so good as well as extremely light, convenient and easy to set up you can deal with a marginally higher black level (Be honest, who watches movies with 0 lux? Can't even see your beer then!)
You can find projectors on ebay with 80% used bulbs that will last you for quite a few movie viewings. I founod that even having a nice projector, I didn't use it all that often to worry about the bulb life - the ballast died first anyway.

However, if you just want to have a CRT becuase it's cool, that's all the reason you need :) Friend of mine had 3. Last I heard he was still just using his 32" tv most of the time, heh.

User avatar
IAMNOTDEFECTIVE
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:53 am
Location: Chelmsford/Essex/UK
Contact:

Re: CRT Projector for Bedroom Entertainment Setup?

Unread postby IAMNOTDEFECTIVE » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:28 pm

guardian452 wrote:I just read in your OP you are looking to project on a 40" screen... I'm sorry, but unless you enjoy tinkering with old projectors as a hobby this is ridiculous. (of course, it can be a fine hobby, tho I expect finding replacement tubes may be a problem) You can get a decent cheap TV in that size that will cost the same as a good projection screen. And you'll have to test to see if the projector can even focus that close.


I probably should've said this in my OP, which is my fault. But the reason I'm considering a 40" projector screen is because the way my bed is oriented means that I cannot wall mount the tv... I could ceiling mount it because that is a thing but that would obstruct one of my VR sensors which is very undesirable to me. I was going to get a custom pull down screen so that I can have a bigger display then what I current have, but it would not cause any problems for any of my current equipment.

guardian452 wrote: I personally can't stand the 15.7 khz LOPT whine most NTSC sets make.


This is not going to be a terrible problem for me, because both my Cintiq 18SX and my current TV emit a high pitch whine and it's gotten to the point now where I can't hear it at all unless really listen out for it.
Hackintosh VW (Late 2015) - Core i7-4790k, Geforce GTX 970, 8GB RAM (http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/PwQ8pg)
Surface Book (Mid 2015) - Core i7-6600U, GeForce GTX 945M, 16GB RAM
------------------------------------
Full time Introvert Tech Geek and 3D Animator... Or your money back guaranteed!

User avatar
IAMNOTDEFECTIVE
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:53 am
Location: Chelmsford/Essex/UK
Contact:

Re: CRT Projector for Bedroom Entertainment Setup?

Unread postby IAMNOTDEFECTIVE » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:29 pm

Thanks for all your views so far! They have been genuinely informative! ;)
Hackintosh VW (Late 2015) - Core i7-4790k, Geforce GTX 970, 8GB RAM (http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/PwQ8pg)
Surface Book (Mid 2015) - Core i7-6600U, GeForce GTX 945M, 16GB RAM
------------------------------------
Full time Introvert Tech Geek and 3D Animator... Or your money back guaranteed!

User avatar
guardian452
Donor
Donor
Posts: 3467
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:12 pm
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: CRT Projector for Bedroom Entertainment Setup?

Unread postby guardian452 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:41 am

Raion-Fox wrote:aperture grille TVs were EXPENSIVE.


Not really, our 27" trinitron was $400 in '98. We had furnished a few apartments with some REALLY cheap 25" RCA sets (no video in, mono sound, etc) around the same time, and they were still $250, as sort of bottom-of-the-barrel comparison. You could have spent as much or more than $400 on a set with a shadow mask.

They were about on par with other sets of the same quality. Every single TV-on-a-cart at our fairly middling public high school in the 90s was a trinitron, so there's no way they were that expensive.

Raion-Fox wrote:I have a 2011 LED TV that I keep in the spare room and the picture is more washed out than...
So? I can procure a tube that will shrivel your eyeballs into prunes. If picture quality is so supposedly important why buy garbage like that in the first place?

marshallh wrote:Modern projectors are so good as well as extremely light, convenient and easy to set up you can deal with a marginally higher black level (Be honest, who watches movies with 0 lux? Can't even see your beer then
This, exactly. I never understood the ones that bang the drum of perfectly 0 lux black levels. Do they watch in perfect darkness with their eyeballs peeled open like clockwork orange? By themselves? What do the wife and kids think? Once your tube has few hundred hours on it this problem is solved, anyhow, and you may as well watch with a light on. Reflectivity is more important than lux IMO, I've never seen a CRT (or plasma) looking as dark as an LCD with the set off.

jebmayers
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 11:13 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, UK

Re: CRT Projector for Bedroom Entertainment Setup?

Unread postby jebmayers » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:01 am

I have a spare Barco CRT projector as it happens, but it is large and heavy - 1.1m in Length and ~85Kg. It is capable of 2500x2000 though. PM me if you are interested.

Jeb

User avatar
IAMNOTDEFECTIVE
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:53 am
Location: Chelmsford/Essex/UK
Contact:

Re: CRT Projector for Bedroom Entertainment Setup?

Unread postby IAMNOTDEFECTIVE » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:33 am

jebmayers wrote:I have a spare Barco CRT projector as it happens, but it is large and heavy - 1.1m in Length and ~85Kg. It is capable of 2500x2000 though. PM me if you are interested.

Jeb


Thanks for the offer, man! Unfortunately the plan for the retrofit of my entertainment setup is still in the early stages of planning and I do not require a projector at this moment in time. This thread is more of me gathering research on CRT Projectors and in all honesty, I haven't decided if I'm gonna go with CRT or DLP yet...
Hackintosh VW (Late 2015) - Core i7-4790k, Geforce GTX 970, 8GB RAM (http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/PwQ8pg)
Surface Book (Mid 2015) - Core i7-6600U, GeForce GTX 945M, 16GB RAM
------------------------------------
Full time Introvert Tech Geek and 3D Animator... Or your money back guaranteed!


Return to “Everything Else”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot] and 2 guests