President Trump

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skywriter
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Re: President Trump

Unread postby skywriter » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:20 am

josehill wrote:
GL1zdA wrote:Oh my god, hamei hacked skywriters account.


Hah! I had the same thought! :lol:


Actually, this is the single topic we agree on. Business, religion and Politics should never mix with power. His cabinet is a horror show of malfeasance. I would welcome Hamai's 'appraisal' of the situation. :D Or a real-live enactment of Designated Survivor without the nasty parts. Kiefer Sutherland for president!!
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Re: President Trump

Unread postby GL1zdA » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:00 pm

skywriter wrote:
GL1zdA wrote:
skywriter wrote:
Oskar45 wrote:Every country gets the president it wants.


Trump did not win the popular vote, as such, we are not getting the president the majority wants.

But the American president is not elected in popular vote, you can't just say that in the popular vote the results would be the same.

I don't understand the second part of your sentence.

Easy: I wouldn't go voting in California if I was a Trump supported. I wouldn't do it in Kentucky if I was a Clinton supporter. And it seems American people think similar. If you take Turnout rates and the list of swinging states you will see, that 15 of the 18 swinging states have rates higher than the rate for the whole US. The first 6 states with the highest turnout rate are swinging states. That's why I'm saying, that you can't just count the votes as if it was a popular vote, because the turnout rates would look different. I'm no expert in statistics and political science, I did this research just a few minutes ago, but it seems logical.
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Re: President Trump

Unread postby josehill » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:03 pm

skywriter wrote:
GL1zdA wrote:But the American president is not elected in popular vote, you can't just say that in the popular vote the results would be the same.

{snip}
I don't understand the second part of your sentence.


If I may interject, I think the point there is that the election was about winning the Electoral College vote, not the popular vote. If it were about winning the popular vote, the parties would have run substantially different campaigns, perhaps even to the degree that different nominees would've been selected, and the popular vote totals likely would have been significantly different.

For example, Trump essentially did not campaign in California, and California's vote margin was sufficient to provide HRC with the popular vote "victory" in this election. If the election were about the popular vote, Trump certainly would have devoted more resources to California. While it is very unlikely that he would have been able to win California outright, the margin almost certainly would have been very different there and in other states. Given the absolute certainty that so many had about HRC winning the Electoral College before the election, can anyone be certain about the outcome of a hypothetical election where winning the popular vote was the objective?

Change the rules, and you change the "game."

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Re: President Trump

Unread postby dexter1 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:16 pm

I would like to hear opinions about what will happen if a significant third faction would come to power to contest for the Electoral College, oh let's call them the Independent Green Liberals for simplicity sake :) . Would that not upset the whole chain of Presidential election, since no one would be able to get a 270 vote majority?

I am still wondering why the presidential campaign and the House of representative and the Senate are a two faction split.
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Re: President Trump

Unread postby commodorejohn » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:01 pm

dexter1 wrote:I would like to hear opinions about what will happen if a significant third faction would come to power to contest for the Electoral College, oh let's call them the Independent Green Liberals for simplicity sake :) . Would that not upset the whole chain of Presidential election, since no one would be able to get a 270 vote majority?

Yes and no. The Constitution provides for the possibility of nobody getting 270 electoral votes; in that case, the decision goes to the House. So it wouldn't break the system and leave us without a president, it would just be an absolutely unprecedented turn of events that would likely piss everybody off (we'll see what happens this upcoming Monday, we may yet get that even without a major third party, if the rumblings of an elector revolt turn out to be substantial and enough of them switch votes to leave Trump without the magic number.)
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Re: President Trump

Unread postby skywriter » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:56 pm

I would back anyone other than Trump. The Electoral college is the presidential equivalent of the Lemon Law. He lies. He makes stuff up to suit his own ends. He attacks anyone that doesn't support him. He's vulgar, rude, and arrogant. Worse yet, the Russians would gut us, and the rest of the democratic world if he was in charge. He a plutocrat who's main goal is to line his - and the rest of the 1%er's - pockets with the tax payers money. Look at is cabinet! It's insane!
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Re: President Trump

Unread postby skywriter » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:11 pm

Plus he's bringing lawsuits against anyone who is endevoring against him. Does that sound like a freely elected president elect?

His twitters mark him as a brutal megalomaniac.
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Re: President Trump

Unread postby spiroyster » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:40 am

2016 seems to have turned into a competitive, who can throw spanners into your own political system hardest competition in the west! UK, US and Italy (I would mention Greece, since they voted recently to leave the EU by a substantial margin, but it appears the country is so screwed anyhow, not adhering to the will of the popular vote is the least of their worries), now lets see how the rest of the games in Europe pan out in 2017 o.0

Out of curiosity, where is proportional representation employed in election for head of state? This has certainly been in question in the UK in the last 2 general elections (And I'm sure it's a regular topic of discussion in every UK general election). The closest we get is a referendum, and we have only had what 4 of them? ever... Even now gerrymandering is going on as the Tory's are attempting to change the electoral borders.

Somewhat ironic we have managed to retain the definition of democracy, yet changed the implementation. o.0

To be fair though, while I don't like our result in the UK, at least it is easier to accept it, unlike soon to be Trumpton. Wanting him would appear to put you in a minority in the US.

Personally I think this problem could be resolved using Monte Carlo methods :)

In situations when there are huge number of variables and possibilities (every citizen effectively has a different requirement and would choose to influence the political establishment to favour themselves), we could randomly sample the population (literally) and elect the sample as head of state for a short period of time. They have that period of time to make a contribution. A lot of contributions would no doubt be rejected, or discarded since they contribute very little to our anticipated result (employing Russian roulette techniques could also help retain population size), however in theory we would eventually converge on an unbiased approximation of a utopian social model that everybody (would in some part) have contributed too. Not saying the result would be good (I've made many a render, that while physically accurate, looks horrendous). However we could all sleep sound at night knowing that when we get morally audited, we adhere to sound mathematical and logical principles.

Importance sampling and metropolis methods could be utilised at times of war to optimise our decisions.

Democracy doesn't need to be biased, just very noisy at first, and not real-time.

In other news, anyone seen that Arctic 1600SW on ebay uk. Don't see many of them now... Its semi-transparent, something we can only dream of with any politics these days. :roll:

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Re: President Trump

Unread postby jan-jaap » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:40 am

spiroyster wrote:Somewhat ironic we have managed to retain the definition of democracy, yet changed the implementation. o.0

With the adoption of the "Snoopers' Charter" the UK has officially become a police state.
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Re: President Trump

Unread postby spiroyster » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:45 am

jan-jaap wrote:
spiroyster wrote:Somewhat ironic we have managed to retain the definition of democracy, yet changed the implementation. o.0

With the adoption of the "Snoopers' Charter" the UK has officially become a police state.

Excellent news, the feature list of FreeWorld 2.0 is getting better by the day.

Cannot wait for the service pack!

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Re: President Trump

Unread postby Oskar45 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:41 am

Hacking away on Trump is only so much fun. The deeper issue is, how come he could be elected  as the (albeit remote) successor to Lincoln at all?
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Re: President Trump

Unread postby Shiunbird » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:06 am

Oskar45 wrote:Hacking away on Trump is only so much fun. The deeper issue is, how come he could be elected  as the (albeit remote) successor to Lincoln at all?


Because of his recipe for being a successful person:

1. Be bold.
2. Be a winner.
3. Grab them by the pussy.
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Re: President Trump

Unread postby Geoman » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:34 am

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Re: President Trump

Unread postby skywriter » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:28 pm

Oskar45 wrote:Hacking away on Trump is only so much fun. The deeper issue is, how come he could be elected  as the (albeit remote) successor to Lincoln at all?



He's a sick corrupt fuck who took advance of out-of-workable color white men, to convince them he would make american alll white, and bring manufacturing job home. This was successful because he used champained in state that would give him the majority of the Electoral College.

So far, he still hasn't release his income tax. He only goes to one of 6 intllignce briefings. He makes inflammatory statements on twitter attacking individual people. He's talked to the butcher of the. Phillipines and congratulated him on the. Number f people. He's. Murdered with his death squads. His family members sit in on international meetings because they all have usiness interests in all the companies he talks to.He built a hotel a couple of blocks from the white house so visiting dignitatires could at his company directly to curry favor with him. In every country he has hotels being built, suddenly obstacles to construction ar being swept aside as a favor to the president. To anyone with even a scant view of the world this shows tremendous corruption. Not to mention as soon as it was released the that Russian had been Influencing the election he denied it vociferously. One can count on one thing; if trump says it isn't so, it most certainly is so! He's a horrible person, and his ethics are nonexistent.
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Re: President Trump

Unread postby VenomousPinecone » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:27 am

This is beyond civil.


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