Liquid Immersion Cooling

For friendly off topic discussion not covered in a forum above.
Forum rules
No politics, please.
User avatar
hazelden
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:09 pm
Location: West Dover, Nova Scotia, Canada
Contact:

Liquid Immersion Cooling

Unread postby hazelden » Sat May 10, 2014 4:08 pm

I have a question for the HPC computing people on Nekochan.

Does anyone have an idea on the price of 3M Novec dielectric liquid fluid? I'm interested in the idea of doing a liquid immersion cooling experiment on a PC and would like to get a ballpark idea of the cost for the fluid before I call any 3M sales guys and try to buy enough to fill a small fishtank.

This was inspired by looking an article on ITWORLD Intel and SGI test full-immersion cooling for servers and from looking at the work done by http://www.iceotope.com/
Last edited by hazelden on Sat May 10, 2014 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Hazelden, VFX Artist
Personal Blog: www.AndrewHazelden.com

:O2: SGI O2, 195 MHz R10K, 320 MB ram, AV1 Video i/o card, 36GB HD

User avatar
ClassicHasClass
Donor
Donor
Posts: 2075
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:12 pm
Location: Sunny So Cal
Contact:

Re: Liquid Immersion Cooling

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Sat May 10, 2014 4:25 pm

I'm less worried about the computer and the cost and more worried about a leak in the tank.
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

robespierre
Posts: 1553
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:28 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Liquid Immersion Cooling

Unread postby robespierre » Sat May 10, 2014 5:36 pm

Fire extinguishers using the same chemical seem to be priced in the range of $50-100 / kg.
I do not know if it is less expensive in bulk, it doesn't seem to be a chemical that is readily available in bottles or drums.
:PI: :O2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2IMP:

User avatar
guardian452
Donor
Donor
Posts: 3429
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:12 pm
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Liquid Immersion Cooling

Unread postby guardian452 » Sat May 10, 2014 7:59 pm

For a PC in a fishtank I have seen mineral oil used successfully for a fraction of the cost..

User avatar
vishnu
Donor
Donor
Posts: 3174
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:25 pm
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

Re: Liquid Immersion Cooling

Unread postby vishnu » Sat May 10, 2014 11:39 pm

From TFA: "Novec can help CPUs operate at a consistent temperature, which Patterson said can help reduce electrical leakage on chips." Huh?
Project:
Temporarily lost at sea...
Plan:
World domination! Or something...

:Tezro: :Octane2:

User avatar
hazelden
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:09 pm
Location: West Dover, Nova Scotia, Canada
Contact:

Re: Liquid Immersion Cooling

Unread postby hazelden » Sun May 11, 2014 3:52 am

Here are a few video clips from Youtube / Vimeo that show the OBI Open Bath Immersion cooling process. It's pretty amazing to see the Novec 7000 fluid boiling and circulating over the motherboards at low temperatures like 34°C. The process works without any aluminium heatsinks or fans mounted on the CPUs.

Immersion Cooling with 3M Novec Engineering Fluids
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6ErbZtpL88

Boiling Liquid Submersion Cooling Computer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_X_hgtlJpA

Immersions-Cooled Server Cluster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NymeDU96pac

Server Demo Part I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nppkJbcKUnw

Novec 7000 Based HFE cooling to improve efficiency of servers
http://vimeo.com/37127378
Andrew Hazelden, VFX Artist
Personal Blog: www.AndrewHazelden.com

:O2: SGI O2, 195 MHz R10K, 320 MB ram, AV1 Video i/o card, 36GB HD

robespierre
Posts: 1553
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:28 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Liquid Immersion Cooling

Unread postby robespierre » Sun May 11, 2014 8:54 am

Ah, I thought you meant Novec 1230, which is entirely different (it is a perfluoroketone).
the HFE Novec 7000 is available in 1 gal bottles for about $300.

It might be interesting to look at cooling an imac this way, using an external heat pump
:PI: :O2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2IMP:

User avatar
R-ten-K
Posts: 1889
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: Nor Cal

Re: Liquid Immersion Cooling

Unread postby R-ten-K » Sun May 11, 2014 7:25 pm

You could try using mineral oil, should be significantly cheaper.
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sun-god robes on a
pyramid with thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"

robespierre
Posts: 1553
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:28 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Liquid Immersion Cooling

Unread postby robespierre » Sun May 11, 2014 11:03 pm

I think the posters discussing mineral oil are fixating on the "liquid cooling" bit, and not the applications that the OP linked to. The systems he described are using two-phase heat transfer, where the medium must boil to remove a sufficient amount of heat. Compared to two-phase cooling, a purely liquid phase system must have either a greater liquid volume or faster pumping speed or both (paribus specific heat). For applications where there is a very concentrated source of heat, such as a chip with a high TDP, some kind of heat sinking may also be required. This requirement does not exist with the Intel/SGI type of two-phase cooling the OP mentioned. Fluorinert FC-72 should work as well.

There are also problems caused by a boiling fluid, as the expansion can disturb components on circuit boards. The whole assembly should be conformally coated to prevent bubbles forming underneath packages, although epoxy underfill could also work (albeit more labor intensive).
:PI: :O2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2IMP:

User avatar
guardian452
Donor
Donor
Posts: 3429
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:12 pm
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Liquid Immersion Cooling

Unread postby guardian452 » Mon May 12, 2014 8:01 am

Yeah, I missed that bit until I actually watched some of the videos he posted :roll:

But if you just want a gee-whiz-lookatme! submerged computer (and a big greasy mess....) mineral oil is not a bad way to go.

User avatar
hazelden
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:09 pm
Location: West Dover, Nova Scotia, Canada
Contact:

Re: Liquid Immersion Cooling

Unread postby hazelden » Mon May 12, 2014 11:23 am

Hi robespierre.

robespierre wrote:Ah, I thought you meant Novec 1230, which is entirely different (it is a perfluoroketone). the HFE Novec 7000 is available in 1 gal bottles for about $300.


Thanks for your responses to my questions and the pricing info for a bottle of Novec 7000 fluid. It's pretty amazing to think a 55 gallon barrel of the stuff would cost ~$17,000!

The Novec fluid has really interesting physical properties. When a circuit board is extracted from the Novec liquid it comes out clean and dry which would make it easier to service a computer module compared to cleaning up a component saturated with mineral oil. The open bath immersion cooling system should become more common in the HPC market when higher density systems are deployed with even greater cooling requirements.

I noticed it's possible to get the occasional bottle of the HFE Novec 7000, 7100, and 7200 liquids on eBay so I might look at that route for sourcing supplies for my experiment.

Thanks again,
Andrew
Andrew Hazelden, VFX Artist
Personal Blog: www.AndrewHazelden.com

:O2: SGI O2, 195 MHz R10K, 320 MB ram, AV1 Video i/o card, 36GB HD

robespierre
Posts: 1553
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:28 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Liquid Immersion Cooling

Unread postby robespierre » Mon May 12, 2014 12:46 pm

Andrew:
I just noticed that you are in Canada. You should call MG Chemicals and ask if they can provide you with samples.
http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/cleaners/3m-fluids/
:PI: :O2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2IMP:

User avatar
thebulbguy
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:43 pm
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: Liquid Immersion Cooling

Unread postby thebulbguy » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:53 pm

Oh man, always good to see someone else crazy enough to dunk their most valuable electronics in a fishtank! I'm also messing with Novec in an immersion cooling project now - I'm using Novec 649 to cool bitcoin miners, as its boiling point of 49°C is right at a normal operating temperature for a lot of ASICs. So far the results are great, although I would definitely look at using a more specialized enclosure - unlike mineral oil you won't get any benefit from having a lot of idle fluid/thermal mass, and it will run up the cost of your project very quickly. The tank I'm using is custom designed to hold as many ASIC boards as I can fit into it with just enough space between them to allow for bubbles to rise easily, and the recondensed fluid is piped to the bottom of the tank and reintroduced through holes between the boards. This minimizes the amount of fluid needed and keeps it constantly circulating without a pump.
In production: :O2000R: :O2000: :Onyx2: :Fuel: :Octane2: :Indigo2: :1600SW: :1600SW: :1600SW: :1600SW: :A3503L:
In need of TLC: :Onyx: :Indigo: :Indigo: :PI: :PI: :O2: :O3x0: :O3x0:

User avatar
hamei
Posts: 10433
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:10 pm
Location: over the rainbow

Re: Liquid Immersion Cooling

Unread postby hamei » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:02 am

thebulbguy wrote: The tank I'm using is custom designed to hold as many ASIC boards as I can fit into it with just enough space between them to allow for bubbles to rise easily, and the recondensed fluid is piped to the bottom of the tank and reintroduced through holes between the boards. This minimizes the amount of fluid needed and keeps it constantly circulating without a pump.

Image
I spent a fortune on booze, birds, and fast cars ... the rest I just squandered

User avatar
recondas
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5441
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:55 pm
Location: NC - USA

Re: Liquid Immersion Cooling

Unread postby recondas » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:00 pm

hamei wrote:Image
Not exactly high tech, but they worked better than the windows-down 2/60 alternative....



But if you're gonna do gotta-be-movin'-to-stay-cool, you might as well lose the radiator too:
Totally aircooled.jpg
Ralph's favorite car (-;
Totally aircooled.jpg (44.35 KiB) Viewed 1001 times
***********************************************************************
Welcome to ARMLand - 0/0x0d00
running...(sherwood-root 0607201829)
* InfiniteReality/Reality Software, IRIX 6.5 Release *
***********************************************************************


Return to “Everything Else”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: duck and 2 guests